It is interesting to hear from you in this thread. Yes indeed hello from the UK.

I suppose the question would be in general terms what happened with the meeting between Gerald Red Elk and Trungpa and is it in any way related to the spread of the Shambhala teachings –for shambhala, I suppose insert, general awakening of humankind.

Yes I feel myself with these particular teachings, though I am a Buddhist, that they go beyond definitions that we have in this world-so they are intriguing. So yes in some respects even though it would be nice to be within the community of SI – I can not do so re just the general state of what is happening locally and in a world sense.

So yes it is a conundrum as to how things are going to develop but I feel that due to the times interesting things are going to occur.

I am not usually so serious about these things, in fact in these times may be it is better to be ‘more secular’ in the sense of being more open to people.

Well best from a rainy Stockport and I do look forward to your further comments perhaps in a brief article on rfs for example.

Best from the UK.

Rita Ashworth

you said: “One way of maybe keeping people within SI would be for a commission to be set up to commune with other faiths about the Shambhala teachings in the spirit of ecumenism perhaps something could evolve from that.”

I think that is a realy great proposal!!!! Perhaps it could even be officially presented to Richard Reoch??

also, thank you for the comments about Trungpa Rinpoche’s involvement with Native American Spirituality, and your mentioning of that movie, A Man Called Horse. (I must see that!!!)

Wasn’t the Werma Sadhana ‘revealed’ to Trungpa at Casa Werma in Mexico…….in this context revelation happens in all religions perhaps something will evolve. I dont know perhaps the Sakyong can not apprehend peoples experiences as Trungpa did this may be one reason why we have Shambhala Buddhism.

Its interesting that Trungpa Rinpoche had close contact with other religious faiths both in the UK and America and that indeed in America he was quite close to Gerald Red Elk – perhaps there are similar practices to Buddhism within Native American religion. For example I have watched ‘A Man call Horse’ a movie that Trungpa quoted from in relation to the Sun ceremony which shows the religious experiences a person goes through to become a chief. One way of maybe keeping people within SI would be for a commission to be set up to commune with other faiths about the shambhala teachings in the spirit of ecumenism perhaps something could evolve from that.

Would love to hear any stories about Trungpa and his meeting with Gerald Red Elk -might be some pointers as to how different faiths can get along.

Best

Rita Ashworth

I’m afraid that changing things as they are now is hopeless, in any case… and the best people can do is to find ways to save Trungpa Rinpoche’s teachings, to practice together, to be able to commiserate about the losses, and to discuss related ideas: Doctrinal issues, inspirations, etc.

RFS is the ONLY forum that I really appreciate and feel I “belong” to on a deep personal level. (however, not having signed on any dotted line…) The poetry idea was good, but it seemed like our contributions were still our particular comments and views about the current situation. “We” are perhaps dealing with deep sadness and bitterness, I think!!

Personally, I feel that even though the changes that have been made by SI have been a complete tragedy, nevertheless I have tried to develop a view to accept what is happening.

As a practitioner, when dealing day to day with SI people individually, I feel the necessity to go beyond even the “lack of critical intelligence,” horrendous “how money is spent” problems, and political problems that seem to be there, and just view the whole thing as another body of practitioners who are human with their own view and their own devotion. Acknowledge that they feel like a really valid community of practitioners. I have to respect that.

When I am with a good friend or co worker who feels inspired by SI, I let them know of my own preference… or perhaps, even not. It sometimes seems irrelevant, since their own inspiration is so strong, and they are doing so much for others within that system. …And since we are working together; we already have common ground. No need to stir that up with them.

Of course on this forum, dissenters from the dissenters seem like people who want to enter into debate.

I’m not sure why I had to say all this, it sounds sort of simple minded…… some sort of affirmation, I guess. but thank you for listening!! and also for all these interesting and intriguing posts.

with love,
Tsondru….

Ngondro seems to practiced solely by Tibetan Buddhist practitioners as preliminary practices for receiving empowerment into a tantric sadhana. The word itself means to go before or precede.
While other religious traditions undoubtedly have methods for wearing out self-clinging and self-cherishing, devising a special ngondro practice for a Jewish or Christian meditator, for example, would be meaningless since they don’t have sadhanas to practice afterwards.

I was contemplating this paragraph by Jim Wilton in regard to a local group in my own area which allows people to practice Buddhist ngondro under the guidance of a teacher which is similar to the way that SMR is teaching Shambhala Buddhism. I was wondering if this way of practicing of ngondro is a Nyingmpa way (the group here is Nyingmpa) of doing things

As the group here is doing ngondro this way perhaps it would have implications for the way you could have a purely Buddhist ngondro but also based by time and not counting………this way the paths could be kept separate but they would be more applicable to busy westerners.

I feel also there has to be a dialogue with other faiths to perhaps further the Shambhala teachings after they have come to a stop with SI because they are not going to become Buddhist. Could there be a way of devising a possible ngondro for these groups with our assistance.

Also arent we all really making assumptions about other faiths who attended the past Kalapa Assemblies – it would be good to hear from them on this site.

Incidentally if you want to google the group here it is called Khandro Ling and is near Macclesfield UK. Someone just gave them the centre and did it up for them – strangely the colours used resemble our centres. If anyone round the world wants to use this centre – you just need to cover the expenses -everything otherwise is done by donations only – I think it would be good if SI could do some events by donation only in these hard times.

Best

Rita Ashworth

There’s a difference between “how do you see things differently?’ and
“how can we get you to see things our way?” The latter, for me, is the tone of the apologists for the current administration. SMR is not the real subject of the debate, I think.

I don’t think anyone is trying to “undermine” anything here. And “loyalty” takes different forms. Loyalty is towards the path and the instructions of the teacher, not to any organization or administration. I think this is a source of some of the confusion here.

I think I understand you. You understand your loyalties in certain ways. From that point of view, It is fine and beautiful for you to feel this way, (taking a dharmic stance) yet choosing one side of the situation to be on. We are all on our own journey, of course…. but for some others, as you said, each has their own way and needs to be the principle witness. This site is a great place to associate with other “outsiders.” of all kinds and varieties. and to problem solve, when possible. Too bad it has to be so argumentative, at times. And not so easy to not react or over react in our dialogues over things so dear to all of our hearts (on both sides.)

ALSO I have a dear friend who is a kasung, and he feels similarly to you, in terms of his oath is to protect the King or lineage, or something like that.. So I suppose it all depends on how that is defined. But in any case, I got the idea that it may be more difficult for Kasung to pull away from their king, since they have taken a vow to protect him. I repect that.