“Many of us have reached a place where the Sadhana of Mahamudra is more and more a living experience and no longer just an intellectual exercise.”

Chris; I loved that part of your post as well as your entire discussion about this Sadhana. The power of the Vidyadhara’s Sadhana of Mahamudra is so overwhelmingly effective and accessible to us in bringing Trungpa Rinpoche and his blessings into our lives and our practice. Yes, even just doing it with loving focus dispels so much darkness, and renews spirit. Whether we do it together or apart, it is THERE for us in a powerful way. It has “saved my life” many times.

I’m so excited to hear that this is increasingly true for others as well.

Thank you for bringing that up.

Ginny

This is right on the mark. I think we must respect and venerate him as Sakyong of Shambhala. However as we know from our own history, these choices of the Vidyadhara were inspired experiments, like his choice of Regent. Things can always get worse — also it’s possible for tulkus to make mistakes, as Jamgon Rinpoche said to me in San Francisco in 1980. He said,

“I make mistakes, His Holiness makes mistakes. But we don’t try to manipulate the outcome.”

We should find ways, as the keepers of the sacred Shambhala and Buddhist teachings to empower ourselves to make that tradition heard — in ways more connected to “community organizing” and “liberation theology” than has ever been done in the past. We need to take that leap.

Of course we should petition Shambhala International for greater transparency, both in terms of finances, and also in terms of its kindred spirit, the organization chart. That’s the ground.

When we, as the Senior Tour, find our voice and perform the right self-abhishekas, cast the net wider to include Reggie, Ojai, etc., from the point of view that fundamentally the body of the Church is in the Sangha.

This fundamental shift, will ultimately mean that we weigh in for a choice for a new Regent, a linage Buddhist teacher, be it someone like Punlop Rinpoche, Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche, someone who enters the mandala with a strong accomplished authoritative voice in the lineages with which we are connected. Maybe even Reggie.

But make no mistake about it, the process of exchange begins with one’s self: it’s not a group decision and it shouldn’t come from on high. It should also respectfully acknowledge the role of SMR as Sakyong of Shambhala. But not as Buddhist Guo Shi.

Lee

At some point you mentioned that in the old days during Shambhala levels it would often feel as though the Vidyadhara was there in the room. There was the special quality of the mandhala. Call it adhistana — the blessings of the lineage who knows.
Just drinking a glass of sake would feel that way.

That is no longer the case, at least in my experience. I think it is still possible to connect with the Vidyadhara but through our individual practice not through Shambhala International.

At some point, having a brief conversation with Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche I mentioned that I was a student of the Vidyadhara. He asked “Did you meet him?” After I said yes he said “Lucky.” And then he went on to say that that lineage is gone.

It has been difficult to come to terms with actually. But I think we need to realize that that lineage is gone. The direct tranmission from master to disciple was broken with the regent’s death. I really don’t think there was a backup plan.

But this in no way lessens what Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche is doing or his standing as a genuine tulku and meditation master.

I remember at the 1986 seminary the Vidyadhara took off at the beginning of the Vajrayana section. There were rumors swirling around about how he was going to France to visit Ciel Turzanski. And rumors that he wanted to tear down the whole organization. I might have that wrong.
It was a very raw and terrible thing — and I think we were all just wandering around in a daze — naked, groundless and heartbroken. And, of course, now I think what a perfect way to throw us all into it! And we are still in it!

I promised myself that I would write tonight just because this forum has really touched me. I don’t know if you remember me John. I think we were at KCL together — I may have been Rick Armstrong at that point. Somewhere you

I promised myself that I would write tonight just because this forum has really touched me. I don’t know if you remember me John. I think we were at KCL together — I may have been Rick Armstrong at that point. Somewhere you

And I agree wholeheartedly with you as well. I think is just a forum to express the last of our anger and sadness and yes, rage ( after years of trying to go along, being pissed off , shocked, amazed dumbfounded, disgusted, bemused. hypocritical, smiling, disingenuous, synchophantic, anything but true to our own wisdom and seeing clearly.) before the finally letting go of the whole enchilada.

I don’t apologize any more for the rage I have felt, I will not reject it, I will feel it completely and let it blaze and burn up my last clinging to this and that and how I thought it would be..

What is happening in the institutionalization of Shambhala is nothing new. All we have to do is read the great teachers and teachings to see that all of them were expressing the same disgust and anger and humour about the corruption of the dharma in their own lives. And they came to the same resolution:

“Politics and religious activities
Are only for gentlemen.
That’s not for you my dear boy.
Remember the example of an old cow:
She-s content to sleep in a barn.
You have to eat, sleep and shit
That’s unavoidable anything
Beyond that is none of your business.
Do what you have to do
And keep yourself to yourself.”
—–Patrul Rinpoche

Many of us have reached a place where the Sadhana of Mahamudra is more and more a living experience and no longer just an intellectual exercise.

How does it go:

“The corpse bloated with the eight worldly concerns,
Is cut into pieces by the knife of DETACHMENT.”

I think we can all relate now experientially not intellectually to:

“The search for an external protector
Has met with no sucess,
The idea of a diety as an external being
Has deceived us, led us astray,
Counting on friends has brought nothing
But sorrow and insecurity”,

” Doubt that wisdom exists within one and other dualistic thoughts” all these are offered up as my feast offering.

S of M is probably the most powerful, living terma of any century by any teacher. And we were given this. Just this would have been enough.,

If the Vidhardhara’s students just got together once a month and did this sadhana and feast offering, we could preserve his terma, It is all here, completely.

And we could thank the Sakyong for manifesting the way he did, or we would probably still “be going along to get along”. And have missed being catapulted out of the “cocoon.”

Or how about:

By the way, S of M was originally titled the “Sadhana of the 100 Siddhas”
according to an excellent source, but was changed to the “Sadhana of Mahamudra” to please th 16th Karmapa. It is much more Dzogchen, or the Union of Mahamudra and Dzogchen. Calling it the Sadhana of Mahamudra kept it self-secret actually..

If we were to keep CTR in our hearts purely, we would never, never have doubt about who we are, we would never apologize, and we could capture the Kings seat by knowing that enlightenment is discovered within. And thank our blessings that the blessings have come in forms we never could have predicted.

Chris

1. The current Sakyong is not VCTR. Comparison has largely yielded
only confusion.

2. One might assume that the current Sakyong has every intention of
preserving and promoting the teachings of the Druk Sakyong. Why assume anything else? To do so, one would have to assume that the current Sakyong is corrupted. I don’t believe this.
How this manifests in practical terms is another issue, the key issue at hand.

3. The push for financial transparency has had results and probably will continue to do so. The imperiousness of many of the close students of VCTR in running Vajradhatu is not sustainable in the current environment..

4. The project the Vidyadhara started is huge…and multi-generational;
we cannot know how it will look in ten years, let alone a hundred. Is anything that is happening now set in stone for the future? I cannot see how this would be possible….unless the living quality of the teachings
is lost. That could happen, it’s true. I’m not sure that it’s likely.

5. Many (80%?) of the Vidyadhara’s students don’t find affinity with the current picture of Shambhala, (myself included). This “cutting loose”
of students goes back to the lineage founders. Maybe we should all find something else to do to help sentient beings instead of bemoaning
what we don’t like about Shambhala.org.. On the other hand, our
criticisms are important. It took me a number of years to get over my
proprietary feelings towards Shambhala. It was painful to let go. I feel
some criticism is mixed with people’s personal feelings. But that too is changing.

6. The fact that there is so much discussion and scrutiny is extremely
positive..whatever form it takes.

As the Vidyadharas students, we should take pride in what we have done and gotten rolling. It was never pretty…but many people have already benefitted from the ground we laid. If we maintain our own integrity
vis a vis the teachings, that seems the most important thing we can do.

Let’s get the election out of our system first.

PS I think we met in Chicago back in the day – delivering Karmapa’s throne?

What is the relationship between state and dharma?

Let’s look at a roughly analogous situation: HH Karmapa 5, Deshin Shegpa (means “tathagatha” in Tibetan) and his worthy student –nope! not Trungmase, guru to the 1st Trungpa, Kunga Gyaltsen– but the person who gave the Karmapas the first physical representation of the Vajra Crown, Ming Emperor Yong Le of China (mandarin; “Yong Lo” cantonese). He ascended the throne in 1403.

Yong Le, we know, is the Warrior of the North for our Shambhala tradition. He built the Forbidden City. He re-constructed the Grand Canal. He was the patron of Jing De Zhen, when they created porcelain. He launched a fleet of 3000 merchant ships. He moved the capital to Beiping (“northern peace”) and renamed it Beijing (“northern capital”).

Karmapa Deshin Shegpa lived in Beijing about 3 years at the invitation of the Emperor, (Huang Di, in mandarin). He was named National (dharma) master, or Guo Shi, in Chinese. He was given a name by Yong Le, “Sha Li Pa.” So Kagyu Dharma became the State Religion. Or was it Kagyu Dharma? After all Since the 3rd Karmapa, the Dzogchen lineage, the called the Karma Nyingthig, was part of the lineage of the Karmapas. As was the Surmang Nyengyud and other lineages such as chöd.

What exactly did Karmapa Deshin Shegpa transmit to Yong Le? The only thing I know for sure is Chakrasamvara, since I saw a thangka of he bestowing that abhisheka to the Emperor, during a visit to Surmang Namgyal Tse in 1992. So what I’m about to say is purely conjecture. My guess is that he transmitted everything: Surmang Nyengyud, Karma Nyingthig, etc. He was also most likely transmitted the Kalachakra. Why hold back with the Emperor of China?

What was the result? Yong Le became the principal lineage holder of the Karmapa’s dharma in China. Whoa!, you might say. But let’s look at this more closely. Did he stop being King? No. Did he become a religious leader? no. He ‘just’ became a very powerful and maybe enlightened Emperor.

His reign was a time of enormous openness and strength for China, rivaled culturally only by the Tang Dynasty, which preceded it by 800 years. His was the first of the Ming Tombs and you can visit it if you come to Bejing.

There is too much misplaced criticism of the Sakyong.
My point isn’t that he shouldn’t be King. It’s that something strange and unseemly has happened since he collapsed the distinction between being Guo Shi and Huang Di.

Too bad the Regent sullied his lineage and life with his shenanegans, else we wouldn’t be having this discussion. As Sakyong, SMR would be the guarantor of the Shambhala teachings. But not only did SMR take on his Shambhala lineage, in taking over from the Regent, instead of naming another Regent for Buddhadharma, he also collapsed the distinction between Buddhadharma and Shambhala.

I think that for those of us who don’t go along with this collapse, it would have been easy for him to earn our loyalty without casting aspersions, as King of Shambhala and we be his subjects, had he not done so. But that is a big “if” — and recalls the Yiddish “if grandma had balls, she’d be grandpa.” I doubt that one of us adrift as the Dark Matter, would be anything other than loyal to the marrow, had he name some other Regent, such as Punlop Rinpoche or Khenpo Rinpoche and kept on the Shambhala side of the fence. So what I’m saying is not to take anything away from him as King. Not at all.

The Vidyadhara as we know, was also very accomplished. He hacked through the jungle of Western materialism with the machete of prajna. He loved us. Ming Yong Le was very accomplished, as was his guru, Karmapa Deshin Shegpa, like a rare clear, windless, sunny day in Spring in Beijing. Not common people.

So here’s a question: what’s the name of Yong Le’s son?