Comments on: On Divisiveness http://radiofreeshambhala.org/2009/01/divisiveness/ Think Bigger! Sat, 04 Feb 2012 09:05:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Eric Ross http://radiofreeshambhala.org/2009/01/divisiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-2412 Eric Ross Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:27:17 +0000 http://radiofreeshambhala.org/?p=839#comment-2412 This reminds me of the time when we approached the local Shambhala Center to form a deleg for gays and lesbians within the community, feeling that there was more of a connection through shared life experience than where one's house was located. We were given the same, "Delegs = neighbourhoods" answer. We called the response "habitual thinking" and felt sorry for the "stick-in-the-mud" approach to life and formed the group in a private home rather than meeting at the Shambhala Center. Their loss, our gain.. This reminds me of the time when we approached the local Shambhala Center to form a deleg for gays and lesbians within the community, feeling that there was more of a connection through shared life experience than where one’s house was located. We were given the same, “Delegs = neighbourhoods” answer. We called the response “habitual thinking” and felt sorry for the “stick-in-the-mud” approach to life and formed the group in a private home rather than meeting at the Shambhala Center. Their loss, our gain..

]]> By: John Tischer http://radiofreeshambhala.org/2009/01/divisiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-833 John Tischer Tue, 24 Feb 2009 19:51:06 +0000 http://radiofreeshambhala.org/?p=839#comment-833 Nobody's starting a "Trungpa sect", except maybe Reggie. Who would be capable of leading such a thing anyway? Maybe Gesar...but notice how wisely he has stayed out of the fray. Nobody’s starting a “Trungpa sect”, except maybe Reggie. Who would be capable of leading such a thing anyway? Maybe Gesar…but notice how wisely he has stayed out of the fray.

]]> By: John Tischer http://radiofreeshambhala.org/2009/01/divisiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-832 John Tischer Tue, 24 Feb 2009 18:47:46 +0000 http://radiofreeshambhala.org/?p=839#comment-832 I agree with Rob...there is no schism...at least not like the one between the Dalai Lama and the break off sect from the Gelukpas. We're still talking. I don't think we'll ever be rid of each other. I like this quote by the Vidyadhara from his introduction to "The Rain of Wisdom": "Without exception, anyone who has had the slightest contact with our Kagyu dharma, whether with positive or negative reactions, is bound to become liberated." I agree with Rob…there is no schism…at least not like the one between the
Dalai Lama and the break off sect from the Gelukpas. We’re still talking.
I don’t think we’ll ever be rid of each other.

I like this quote by the Vidyadhara from his introduction to “The Rain of Wisdom”:

“Without exception, anyone who has had the slightest contact with our
Kagyu dharma, whether with positive or negative reactions, is bound
to become liberated.”

]]> By: Barbara Blouin http://radiofreeshambhala.org/2009/01/divisiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-831 Barbara Blouin Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:17:17 +0000 http://radiofreeshambhala.org/?p=839#comment-831 Kelly, As the author of "On Divisiveness" I don't understand your comment and question. "The old man"? Do you mean Chogyam Trungpa? For one, he was only 47 when he died. And to be totally obvious, he is dead, so how can one question him? Yes, people left the sangha during Chogyam Trungpa's lifetime. I think I detect a tone of veiled hostility in your comment. If you don't like what I wrote, please be more direct: say it! And be specific. That would be much more helpful. Kelly, As the author of “On Divisiveness” I don’t understand your comment and question. “The old man”? Do you mean Chogyam Trungpa? For one, he was only 47 when he died. And to be totally obvious, he is dead, so how can one question him? Yes, people left the sangha during Chogyam Trungpa’s lifetime. I think I detect a tone of veiled hostility in your comment. If you don’t like what I wrote, please be more direct: say it! And be specific. That would be much more helpful.

]]> By: Kelly http://radiofreeshambhala.org/2009/01/divisiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-830 Kelly Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:48:57 +0000 http://radiofreeshambhala.org/?p=839#comment-830 Why doesn't anyone ever question the old man? And speaking of people leaving, how many people left when he was alive? Why doesn’t anyone ever question the old man?
And speaking of people leaving, how many people left when he was alive?

]]> By: Caroly Dekker http://radiofreeshambhala.org/2009/01/divisiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-597 Caroly Dekker Wed, 11 Feb 2009 05:47:24 +0000 http://radiofreeshambhala.org/?p=839#comment-597 I have always found this kind of music very uplifting towards the Shambhala Kingdom: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHtLxxuJsY Please listen and enjoy the feeling of festiveness! I have always found this kind of music very uplifting towards the Shambhala Kingdom:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuHtLxxuJsY

Please listen and enjoy the feeling of festiveness!

]]> By: Michael Sullivan http://radiofreeshambhala.org/2009/01/divisiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-511 Michael Sullivan Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:51:04 +0000 http://radiofreeshambhala.org/?p=839#comment-511 Praise be to The Google.... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4042924371389663223 Praise be to The Google….

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4042924371389663223

]]> By: George Klima http://radiofreeshambhala.org/2009/01/divisiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-510 George Klima Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:08:46 +0000 http://radiofreeshambhala.org/?p=839#comment-510 Rita, would you kindly post a link to the Robin Kornman talks? I searched Youtube and was unable to find it. Thanks Rita, would you kindly post a link to the Robin Kornman talks? I searched Youtube and was unable to find it.

Thanks

]]> By: Tsondru Garma http://radiofreeshambhala.org/2009/01/divisiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-505 Tsondru Garma Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:27:53 +0000 http://radiofreeshambhala.org/?p=839#comment-505 Rita, I agree with you whole heartedly and, by the way, I love your posts. I'm so glad that you brought up the RT. I really heartily agree with you. Although it seems " the dye is cast" in terms of where things are going, at least it is helpful to hear others say these things. Also, re: VIEW, as it was discussed earlier. This is sort of a side line to the discussion, but I wanted to put in a quote from CTR that was sent to Sadhaka Announce years ago, I've saved it as a treasure that I wasn't quite sure I completely understood, but loved it anyway. It is from an entry in CTR's diary, dated Dec 1, 1967, and published in the Nalanda translators' newsletter. It is interesting and provocative. I think it expresses his unique style in presenting the Dharma to us. QUOTE FROM CTR: "I have no home. Home I have none. I have no home. While growing up, since I was little up to now, I have never had a family. Having no family seems very sad, but when I think how I have no home, it is very strange. Home and family - my parents couldn't create it. My friends couldn't create it. No one has been able to create it. Why? the family created by my parents and friends was just a family according to their own way of thinking. In particular, my own situation is due to the fact that no one could understand everything all together: both worldly and spiritual views and how to live one's life. That is not to say that I am more skilled, more learned, and more experienced in the dharma. There are many people who are more learned than I, and more elevated in their wisdom. However, I have never made a separation between the spiritual and the worldly. If you understand the ultimate aspect of the dharma, this is the ultimate aspect of the world. And if you should cultivate the ultimate aspect of the world, this should be in harmony with the dharma. I am alone in presenting the tradition of thinking in this way. Therefore, since I have no ultimate heart friend other than myself alone, I think that it is definite that no one can create an ultimate home or family for me. Still, strangely, this home of being homeless is my home wherever I go. Everything is my home, the home of being homeless." (end) Rita,

I agree with you whole heartedly and, by the way, I love your posts. I’m so glad that you brought up the RT. I really heartily agree with you. Although it seems ” the dye is cast” in terms of where things are going, at least it is helpful to hear others say these things.

Also, re: VIEW, as it was discussed earlier. This is sort of a side line to the discussion, but I wanted to put in a quote from CTR that was sent to Sadhaka Announce years ago, I’ve saved it as a treasure that I wasn’t quite sure I completely understood, but loved it anyway. It is from an entry in CTR’s diary, dated Dec 1, 1967, and published in the Nalanda translators’ newsletter. It is interesting and provocative. I think it expresses his unique style in presenting the Dharma to us.

QUOTE FROM CTR:

“I have no home.
Home I have none.
I have no home.

While growing up, since I was little up to now, I have never had a family. Having no family seems very sad, but when I think how I have no home, it is very strange. Home and family – my parents couldn’t create it. My friends couldn’t create it. No one has been able to create it. Why? the family created by my parents and friends was just a family according to their own way of thinking.

In particular, my own situation is due to the fact that no one could understand everything all together: both worldly and spiritual views and how to live one’s life. That is not to say that I am more skilled, more learned, and more experienced in the dharma. There are many people who are more learned than I, and more elevated in their wisdom. However, I have never made a separation between the spiritual and the worldly. If you understand the ultimate aspect of the dharma, this is the ultimate aspect of the world. And if you should cultivate the ultimate aspect of the world, this should be in harmony with the dharma. I am alone in presenting the tradition of thinking in this way.

Therefore, since I have no ultimate heart friend other than myself alone, I think that it is definite that no one can create an ultimate home or family for me. Still, strangely, this home of being homeless is my home wherever I go. Everything is my home, the home of being homeless.”

(end)

]]> By: rita ashworth http://radiofreeshambhala.org/2009/01/divisiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-504 rita ashworth Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:42:05 +0000 http://radiofreeshambhala.org/?p=839#comment-504 .......I seem to have sparked some discussion with my post -primarily when I came to Buddhism I was interested in the Kaygy path........later Trungpa brought out the Shambhala teachings which were for followers of all other religions aswell - a means for them to practice meditation - as I see it at the present alot of older students, including the late Robin Kornman, also still believe that the two paths should be somewhat separate - or not so interwoven with Shambhala teachings at the present time - I think this is the way the Satdharma community has preserved the teachings of both of these traditions aswell. Shambhala Buddhism, as indeed Davee's post points out, is where people will have to become Buddhist to do the later stages of the Shambhala path........and with the emphasis now being put on Shambhala that doesnt include all those secular meditators out there.........those Xtian and Muslim meditators. Yes I would like eveyone to become Buddhist - it would be a great world?! But I am sure but that isn't going to happen............we need a more open inclusive path for people of other religions who we used to talk to quite alot witness the Xtian and Buddhist dialogues in Boulder in the eighties but now this is less the case. Davee posits that at some stage in the future advanced practices might be offered to people but this is not the case at present and as the 'reforms/changes/ideas' just come down from on high there is no forum to discuss the futherance of the teachings in different directions. Personally I became a Buddhist because before I was one I had some experience in meditation on my own which pointed me in that direction -but I have realised that as time has gone on not many people in the west want to become Buddhists.... they want though access to a meditation path which will lead them to a more open-hearted and successful way of life......the Shambhala teachings should have been that pathway I believe and I still think Trungpa wanted this to be the case...........also personally I dont think I want to follow the Sakyong for four years in learning to do these dark retreats.................still dont consider him as my prime teacher............so if I remain in SI my connection would be with the vajrayana teachings and older Acharyas I suppose which to a degree would exclude me from the bulk of people practicing the new teachings.....no there has to be some new way of Shambhala still being secular............maybe we have to discover it ourselves on sites like these.........'rfs think bigger.....bigger..........bigger........and try and get bods from all over discussing these ideas from the ground up as Barbara Blouin stated. ...........plus what do people think about all this fundraising for the Rinchen Terdzo in India ............it seems to have gone mega when you look at the SI website............still not sure about it myself............of course Trungpa had access to all these teachings and he even gave the transmission for it himself............but as far as I know he did not want westerners to get involved in going for long teachings he wanted them to concentrate on basic meditation and the teachings that he gave when he was alive..........do people think we are getting too much involved with the Tibetan way of doing things............as I said before in another post what about the terma to be discovered in the west............dunno reading the stuff on SI website about RT.........just made me feel it was all too hyper........religious fervour and its all in Tibetan too.......what do people think?..........plus dont get me on to patrons (YUK-YUK)............. well best Rita Ashworth …….I seem to have sparked some discussion with my post -primarily when I came to Buddhism I was interested in the Kaygy path……..later Trungpa brought out the Shambhala teachings which were for followers of all other religions aswell – a means for them to practice meditation –
as I see it at the present alot of older students, including the late Robin Kornman, also still believe that the two paths should be somewhat separate – or not so interwoven with Shambhala teachings at the present time – I think this is the way the Satdharma community has preserved the teachings of both of these traditions aswell.

Shambhala Buddhism, as indeed Davee’s post points out, is where people will have to become Buddhist to do the later stages of the Shambhala path……..and with the emphasis now being put on Shambhala that doesnt include all those secular meditators out there………those Xtian and Muslim meditators.

Yes I would like eveyone to become Buddhist – it would be a great world?! But I am sure but that isn’t going to happen…………we need a more open inclusive path for people of other religions who we used to talk to quite alot witness the Xtian and Buddhist dialogues in Boulder in the eighties but now this is less the case.

Davee posits that at some stage in the future advanced practices might be offered to people but this is not the case at present and as the ‘reforms/changes/ideas’ just come down from on high there is no forum to discuss the futherance of the teachings in different directions.

Personally I became a Buddhist because before I was one I had some experience in meditation on my own which pointed me in that direction -but I have realised that as time has gone on not many people in the west want to become Buddhists…. they want though access to a meditation path which will lead them to a more open-hearted and successful way of life……the Shambhala teachings should have been that pathway I believe and I still think Trungpa wanted this to be the case………..also personally I dont think I want to follow the Sakyong for four years in learning to do these dark retreats……………..still dont consider him as my prime teacher…………so if I remain in SI my connection would be with the vajrayana teachings and older Acharyas I suppose which to a degree would exclude me from the bulk of people practicing the new teachings…..no there has to be some new way of Shambhala still being secular…………maybe we have to discover it ourselves on sites like these………’rfs think bigger…..bigger……….bigger……..and try and get bods from all over discussing these ideas from the ground up as Barbara Blouin stated.

………..plus what do people think about all this fundraising for the Rinchen Terdzo in India …………it seems to have gone mega when you look at the SI website…………still not sure about it myself…………of course Trungpa had access to all these teachings and he even gave the transmission for it himself…………but as far as I know he did not want westerners to get involved in going for long teachings he wanted them to concentrate on basic meditation and the teachings that he gave when he was alive……….do people think we are getting too much involved with the Tibetan way of doing things…………as I said before in another post what about the terma to be discovered in the west…………dunno reading the stuff on SI website about RT………just made me feel it was all too hyper……..religious fervour and its all in Tibetan too…….what do people think?……….plus dont get me on to patrons (YUK-YUK)………….

well best

Rita Ashworth

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