So true…and a good standard by which to evaluate an organization. I’m in Mexico, and, although there is a Shambhala group down here, they seem to be inextricably connected with a phony shaman dude. The more serious practitioners are opposed to the relationship and express doubt and confusion, while the supporters are starry eyed and impervious to and angered by any criticism. It would be an interesting case to study.

Witness Radio Free Shambhala and the reactions of some to the feedback loop it represents….

Another thing that herd animals do is protect themselves from outsiders. If predators are spotted, the weaker herd animals are moved toward the center, and some of the warriors stand between the predator and the rest of the herd.

Well… what is there to protect? That’s an interesting question.

I think one characteristic of a cult is that it draws a circle which delineates insiders from outsiders. The outside of the circle is excluded, and the inside is protected from intrusion.

Isn’t this the cocoon?

We want to prevent the possibility of feedback. Some organizations are like that. And yet, eventually, the feedback comes anyway. The more feedback is blocked, the more painful it is when it finally gets through.

Plus, every time I listen to someone over-use “some sense of” I think they are either treading water or subtly suggesting that the invisible hand of CTR is co-signing on their talk…..

I personally don’t think blending in with people is necessarily a bad thing, in and of itself.

When Padmasambhava went to Tibet, he took a Tibetan consort and acted rough like the mountain people. That can be a skillful way to connect. Maybe a way of stepping out of habitual patterns, in some cases.

I’ve met some people who were very skilled at working with animals, and when they would interact with a dog or a horse, they used the body language that the animal itself was familiar with– the native tongue, so to speak.

On the other hand unconsciously imitating people is probably not so good.

I might use verbal mannerisms that VCTR used, but it’s just cause I dug how he talked and can’t think of a better way to express something in the moment. My old teacher talked very differently from VCTR, so there’s an interesting contrast for me.

I think the real problem with herd mentality gets back to the notion that fitting in with the group is the same as being a practitioner. Somehow the two things become confused. The goals of the group become confused with the goals of practice. Or the goal to practice.

Well, if we do imitate VCTR in vapid ways, all the more reason to invite non-Buddhists to fully participate in Shambhala training, as fully-welcome and respected participants. One of the levels I did a few months ago was so lively because of the mix of people that came. It was also very unpredictable. There was one person there that definitely did not follow the same social cues that the rest of us did, and he kept us on our toes!

I like the jazz metaphor you used.

In me, it seems like “protective coloration”. When in a group, if you look and sound similar to the others, you are more likely to be treated as “us”. So in one sangha you might wear suits, with those who wear casual clothing viewed as either newbies or not serious about the teachings, while in another those who wore suits would be viewed as overly tight and rigid.

One particular standout for me is listening to the words people use. Verbal mannerisms and “pet words” of the teacher are almost like jargon, and people (including me of course!) use them to death. Is this done out of actual understanding and insight or simply to sound like the teacher? Would it be better to chew on those words and express them from my own experience in my own words?

Sometimes it almost seems like riffing on an instrument. A great jazz musician will occasionally quote another song in the course of playing, but it is done rarely. I have heard many budding instructors sound like verbal copy machines, and it really serves to enforce a herd mentality. The Teacher speaks a certain way, then the student teacher copies it, and the message that the student gets is that “this is how we talk”. It is important to note that in this I am referring NOT to dharma terms or content, but to the style of delivery and particular word choice.

I certainly see this tendency in myself, and I bet that many others would too.