As long as I’m here, Re reading Barbra Bluin’s intro to this column, I will have to repeat that as far as I knew, VCTR was looking forward to having non Buddhists be full participants in Shambhala, including the practice.
My understanding now (well, actually, it’s a fact), one now has to be a full fledged Shambhala Buddhist, and have attended Shambhala Buddhist Seminary to be a full fleged participantin Shambhala. A lot of Shambhalians do end up as becoming Buddhist, but that is their own decision, however, they may not want to be pressured into becoming Shambhala Buddhist. Such pressure could actually drive potentially drive future Shambhalains who have a lot to contribute away.
Rob Graffis
A window should be open for all participants to participate. I don’t think that’s a radical idea.
Rob

I’m writing here because even though I can write to sangha talk, I don’t recieve anything from sangha talk, unless the responder CCs their response to me.
As far as I know, I haven’t changed my profile, and it’s not really an appropriate question to as sadhaka talk because it’s not a religious question. Maybe Mark S. can help me out here on this one.

What did the Buddhist say to the hot dog vendor?
Make me one with everything.

Not “I’ll have one with everything.”

That’s all.

Are you sure? What is the purpose of getting defensive?

I used to get extremely uncomfortable when anyone criticized my old teacher. It was extremely painful. Eventually… slowly… gradually… I learned to tolerate the pain and listen to what was said, and I learned a lot. I discovered, much to my surprise, that I had been secretly refusing to accept aspects of my teacher that I did not understand, so I had blocked them out with a kind of mental blindfold.

Even if our teacher is perfect, we could open ourselves to seeing and hearing how he or she affects other people, what kinds of issues get brought up. What’s there to be afraid of?

If our practice is about stepping on fear to develop fearlessness, then what’s there to defend? What is the problem?

Move on guys.

Whenever I hear someone say this, it sounds like the speaker either presumes to be an authority figure who’s job is to tell other people what to do,

or the speaker is freaked out by the confusions or disagreements of others, and wants them to stop communicating, stop triggering the speaker’s issues.

Quite possibly I’m interpreting that wrong, but that’s how it comes across. In my old sangha, we were taught that instead of trying to control each other, or manipulate each other’s behavior, we should learn to say things like “Excuse me, but I feel freaked out by this situation.” or “I didn’t like it when you said X.”

That way of communicating seemed to help me stay in touch with my “soft spot”, and be less of a nuisance to others.

What did the buddhist say to the hot dog vendor?
I’ll have one with everything.

it’s stimulating to discuss. It’s energizing to be passionate. It’s important to accept only those things you need and have checked out yourself.

What is buddhism, but an opportunity to challenge, question, defend…then accept.

i don’t care which words are said in what order. I can even meditate on Gate, Gate paragate…and Know that all is nothing and in nothing is all. So, get off the high horse, carry water, sit in silence and love what you have learned, accept that there are differences, and move on to the real issues of life that we (as Shambhala-ians) need to be participating in and bringing to the world.

chop wood. carry water. speak out. protect the resources of our world, the people, food, water, soil and air.

I’ll have one with everything.

Move on guys. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. it’s all good.

what is there to grasp
yet peculiarly
no one seems immune from grasping
not even the Ministers

ultimate teachings proclaimed
yet achingly
confusion and pain still appear
relative truth yoked as a shadow

behaviour troubles us
yet bewilderingly
we reject common sense as hypothesis based on concepts
may end up exemplary cows

self-cultivation feels so wholesome
yet predictably
we bend and sniff the opium poppies of Religion
stay high on being the One

the blind leading the blind (or only the blond leading the bland)
yet depressingly
psychodrama of Church Triumphant
ever hijacks the view

what a dilemma, what to do…
yet truly
it is not so complex:

we must all
stay on the ball

People communicate to me, but is it an illusion? Yes.

My dog moans. Do I have to listen? My daughter cries. I close my door.

I offer my non-aggressive wisdom to others by the shovelful, but the dumbasses are too shallow and thick.

I point my finger at these stupid illusions, but three of my fingers point back.

I snicker at the idiocy of relative truths, and resent having to eat and poop.

. . . .

(Just trying to make fun of a part of myself here. I’m almost certain I majored in this attitude in past lives.)

Groupthink… isn’t that like like carrying a 50 pound backpack, and then adding a 40 pound weight on top of it? We try to dance with beautiful partners and speak elegantly at cocktail parties, but we’re so weighted down that everything seems so restricted.

Samsara and nirvana

are not two, so, the

psychodramas just become

another color in the rainbow.

or,

not.

Experience is a hypothesis based on
Concepts based on sense perceptions

Seldom escaping self-centeredness
To sniff the hyacinths of selflessness

Then plumb the depths of self again
Is this what you call making progress

Psychodramas hijack mind’s clarity
But ultimately what is there to grasp

If by “innuendo” you are referring to some specific phrase, please point this out. “Innuendo” to me means implying something in a sneaky fashion rather than saying it outright. I don’t think my comment about “groupthink” was implied–it was direct, wasn’t it? I was relating my own personal experience.

Sorry if that offends you or whatever. I could be tricky too and say something like: being offended or not being offended, or both or neither, are extremes etc etc. But I’ve never found that approach helpful when discussing this kind of thing.

If you don’t think groupthink is a perennial problem in religions, political parties, utopian movements etc, then you don’t. Or if you don’t see it specifically in Shambhala, then you don’t. You would be sharing that view with many people of course. I just sincerely disagree. No innuendo, just disagreement and concern.

(John T., I saw your post after writing this and think you said it better. Thanks.)

Yes….innuendo….it’s just another Italian suppository….

But there are facts and if someone is overly affected by group think,
it behooves them to actually know what’s going on in the group. It’s their responsibility to look into the situation.

I’m not trying to transcend anything here….else, I wouldn’t post at all.
But relative truth, although it may mean very little, has the power to clarify the relative situations….and the relative situations are the one’s that lead to further suffering or not. So, it’s better in that respect to understand true kundzop as opposed to false kundzop.

Sometimes a bread crumb is sufficient to the wise. I don’t mind if people think I’m full of shit. I continue to be honored by them.