On Shambhala and the Samaya Connection
February 28, 2010 by RFS Editors 
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The Chronicles site has posted an Editorial by Ellen Mains: On Shambhala and the Samaya Connection, initiating its Vajra Dog series.
Ellen begins:
Not long ago I heard someone say that people who disagreed with decisions made by the Sakyong or Shambhala International were people who didn’t practice and therefore, we shouldn’t pay attention to them. As I stepped into the shower the next morning, I found myself being gradually drenched with thoughts and reflections in response to that statement. Although the shower ended, the other deluge continued for the next couple of hours and I realized I needed to write the ideas down, if only for myself. They reflect some of the heartfelt feelings, reflections and struggle of an older student of the Vidyadhara.
Read more… and discuss here.
Just finished reading Ellen’s editorial. I admire her stamina for being able to hang in there with SMR for so long, and I have no doubt that it was devotion to the Vidyadhara that enabled her to do it. So now her statement has extra weight – she really tried. And now she really sees the extent to which students of CTR have been made irrelevant and dismissed unless we have a samaya connection with SMR. She expresses her journey to her conclusions with great integrity, clarity, and much heart. I think she speaks for many of us, and I am grateful for her eloquence.
Good for Ellen Mains. Speaking out. Articulately, “with integrity” ,
“Clarity” and “much heart”. And of course still within the proper form that doesn’t stray outside of what people will approve of. That’s good. People will listen to Ellen Mains, of course.
But if it hadn’t been for the people on RFS, willing to be raw and say itoutside of the proper form, “not afraid to be a fool” and say it, unpolished, not so articulate , and say it much, much sooner, voices in the wilderness so to speak, , not part of the critical tide that has now turned, and said it, even it it came out as “less polished” but uncensored, and also with heart and even rage, then Ellen Mains probably wouldn’t have “found her voice” a decade or so later.
Just like Chronicles, who , now that there is a critical mass, and they see which way the tide has turned, are willing to publish something “controversial, and have a discussion , albeit monitored and “only within what they decide is appropriate”, and it took them how many years?, and only, only, only , lets not deceive ourselves, because Radio Free Shambhala allowed uncensored voices, unmoderated discussion, RFS that didn’t try and control what was being said, that Chronicles is even now willing to publish Ellen Mains, and have a discussion.
So lets remember also the voices that weren’t so polished that spoke up, and spoke up sooner, when there wasn’t so much like-thinking company, when it was a much greater risk, to reputation, and social acceptance, , (and I include you here Susanne, who was sometimes in a rage and not so “polished”) that Ellen has been finally able, after 20 years, to find her true voice. Good for her. Too late for CTR’s mandala, but good for her. I hope she inspires hundreds of students to stop denying their true feelings and move on.
CTR pissing against a tree, and saying “and this is basic goodness too”.
Well, no matter that the Chronicles is a bit “late to the party” or that they seem over-mannered to those of us already on the outside, this IS a big deal.
The article is obviously heartfelt, and judging by the first responses has struck a chord in their readership. I think that this is in no small part due to the work done here by Mark and Andrew et al. Without the fearlessness shown here – and the absence of conflicts of interest that make one susceptible to institutional leverage – I don’t think the Chronicles would ever have gotten off the dime…..
Disillusionment is the nontheistic path
We refugees lose our homes
We ronin lose our masters
Be cheerful anyway
From: madeline@ns.sympatico.ca
—————————————————–
Life Train
What we have was paid for
In the currency of empty time
That’s how we pay our ticket
On the liberation choo choo *
The uncomplicated love we feel
Was paid for in the currency
Of heartbreaks and despair
That’s how we get a seat
On the great bliss choo choo
Our life train crosses trestle bridges
Huge timbers are like mighty bones
Supporting dramatic human journeys
Many lives flicker past the windows
Were they mine or were they yours
Whose lives are these anyway
Our own strong bones are trestle-like
Steady enough to weave a life on
With luminous threads of all the colors
And gaps for rest on background gold
Lucky about the golden part
Without it we’d be crazy
The ati fellows tell us . . .
No special posture is needed
Just relax; just let it go
Sounds so easy; what a trickeroo
To weave the moments of empty time
Into the fabric of ordinary magic
On a background of genuine fools’ gold
We do this! We are splendid!
Madeline
Halifax
March 2010
* choo choo is american for train
I raise that toast with you, Madeline!
now that chronicles has picked up the story, perhaps some conventional news outlet in boulder will find some interest in the Thanka and the Culture that is changing~~~
There’s an irony to be found, if you enjoy irony as I do, between what Ellen says the Sakyong has said, and what some people are saying in the comments on the Chronicles page with her article. She says:
“the Sakyong said that we had not manifested much progress in the dharma. This, he said, was evidenced by the fact that only one or two students of the Vidyadhara had acquired a significant following of students. , , , , the Sakyong has said that he has been proving himself to us for several years and now it is our turn to prove ourselves to him and to manifest.”
Hmmm. I believe I saw a video of a talk (in Boulder) when he said things like this, so I’m glad Ellen brought it up, because these statements are loaded with assumptions which struck me when I heard them. Since I love to question assumptions, and since SMR appears to be challenging students of the Vidyadhara, his assumptions seem worth examining.
1. SMR seems to judge ‘manifestation’ of ‘progress in the dharma’ according to the number of students a teacher has – or can claim.
Questions: What does ‘progress in the dharma’ mean? To me it means “realization” of truth, reality (dharma). What does “manifestation” mean? Are there not many, many ways to manifest dharmic realization? Isn’t the diversity of manifestations of realization the richness of CTR’s lineages, which he worked so hard to transmit to his students? Is the number of students, or ‘followers,’ the only indication, or ‘proof,’ of a person’s dharmic realization? Is it even a proof of realization at all?
In the case of SI, are the numbers of members they claim accurate? It seems they have many people on their members list who are not students of SMR. Didn’t SMR inherit CTR’s many students, who may be counted but not really be ‘followers’ of SMR? Didn’t CTR warn us about charlatan teachers, who may have many followers, but not be truly realized?
The IRONY is that second generation practitioners, children of my generation, are responding to Ellen’s article with heartbreak, acknowledging that there’s an ‘exodus,’ including those who commented, who are seeking another teacher.
2. Ellen says SMR said ‘he has been proving himself’ for several years and now it’s time for ‘us’ to ‘prove ourselves to him’ and ‘manifest.’
Questions: Why should ‘we’ (students of the Vidyadhara) have to prove ourselves to SMR? Isn’t our realization more dependent on maintaining the vitality of our samaya bond with our root guru, CTR? Isn’t that what Ellen discovered? Why is SMR challenging us to prove ourselves to him? Why is there a sense of competition? Has he proved himself to us? Is it possible that the requirement throughout SI to take an oath of loyalty to SMR is actually squelching realization of the dharma among some of SMR’s followers? Why are dharma brats (those raised on CTR) leaving?
Tibetan Buddhism has a strong tradition of dharmic debate. What does SMR need to do to prove himself to me? I think it would begin with acknowledging and engaging with those who are leaving – ie, genuinely receiving feedback.
Thank you for the letter, Ellen !
I had similar experiences.
My way of handling is thinking/contemplating ‘Feeling sad and lonely’ which is part of the Shambhala path and also the teachings of ‘an unrequitted love-affaire’ .
I would like to write to you personally
Thank you again for the courage,
Gerda
A couple of thoughts:
1)I beleive that many students of the Vidyadhara, including multiple acharyas, intentionally have not sought to gather ’students’ out of a (maybe mis-guided) sense of loyalty to SMR (while waiting for him to empower some of the Vidyadhara’s students to go forward as teachers—something he has not done to date. Those students of CTR who have begun the process of teaching (&gathering ) students olutside of SI have either been turned down in their requests to be empowered w/in SI(Reggie Ray)or have their existing empowerments recognized w/in SI(Patrick Sweeney) or have been attacked (Jim Green years ago) or mocked (John Perks), etc.
2)Loyalty & Samaya are different things. It should be quite possible to have loyalty to a Sakyong (or at least more generally to the lineage of Sakyongs if a current sovereign is not to one’s taste) w/o the requirement of a samaya bond to the Sakyong.
The failure of SI and SMR’s current obligatory Shambhala Buddhist synthesis to make & clearly honor this distinction is probably the most significant problem. SI/SMR appear to be insisting on combining and conflating these items.
As a result of this error, Shambhala (at least in its full manifestation) becomes inaccessible to those without/unwilling to enter into a vajrayana guru samaya relationship w/SMR including all non-Buddhists even if they have loyalty to Shambhala & the Sakyong lineage.
3) If we take SMR’s statements seriously re ‘# of students’ as a test of realization, then maybe we should view it as a ‘command’ from SMR that we (the Vidyadhara’s students) go forth and teach outside the confines of SI.
mark
The students of Trungpa Rinpoche who have remained with the Sakyong have been strongly discouraged from taking on students, particularly at the Vajrayana level. Those who nevertheless have attracted students, which is how one became a non-monastic Lama in the old days in Tibet, have been kicked out, shunned, and denigrated.
So now the Sakyong wants us to believe that, because few of his father’s students have students, that means that they have made little progress in their practice? Which also implies that his father was ineffective as a teacher? The Sakyong has fallen entirely into the old Tibetan mindset where one’s effectiveness in the Dharma is defined by the number and size of one’s monasteries. He is also practicing pretzel logic of the worst kind, where the purpose is to discourage practitioners. It is sad and more than a little sickening to see this.
Hell, I have had 100’s of students and I am just a nobody in Podunk Kansas, Of course they were first and foremost Trungpa students in the SI mandala. But 100’s of us taught classes and gave meditation instructions to 1000’s of people. Pehaps we should have taken more credit and called them our students… Then again maybe not.
Thank you Ellen. I have no doubt that Rinpoche would be very pleased at your honesty. I recall Rinpoche’s statement that the only way one could break Samaya is if you did your prosrations backwards or stopped believing that there was magic in the world. Samaya is about intent. and as you mentioned in our daily lives we struggle with all sorts of issues, from our children,to our aging parents. The intent to get up and continue regardless of what is going on in our lives is truly Samaya in action.
Three cheers for the mishap lineage
Trunga fucked-up all the way into Padmasamvaha territory
The Regent fucked-up all the way into Vajrayogini’s passionate embrace
SMR is fucking up too. Where will he end up?
Give us enough rope and we will surely hang ourselves
Only Vajra nature will survive
Thank you, Mark Smith.
I’m speaking to the three comments you made yesterday; to paraphrase:
1. The organizational or self-internalized discouragement or hesitation to “gather students.”
2. That loyalty and samaya are two different things (and server differing purposes or skillfull means).
3. That SMR’s statements, whether intentional or not, actually encourage us to “go out and gather students.”
These are excellent points for us all (and of all positions within the mandala) to study further. Certainly I will include them in my out thought process.
Gassho,
Bill
Don’t forget that the Sakyong wouldn’t even let Pema Chodron give refuge and bohisattva vows for many years — let alone vajrayana samaya vows. Pema Chodron is hands down the most popular American Buddhist teacher and could have legions of disciples if she left the Shambhala organization and struck out on her own. There are hundreds of people — probably thousands — who consider her their primary teacher and long to take her as their personal guru. When Pema used to co-teach seminaries with the Sawang-then-Sakyong many of the participants came just to study with her.
On another note, I once saw a video of Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche at his Pullahari monastery in Nepal teaching a group of three-year retreatants in France. Jamgon Rinpoche said, “Westerners tend to have a mistaken idea about the root guru. Your root guru isn’t just your root guru during his lifetime, or even in your lifetime. Your root guru is your root guru until you attain enlightenment.” In other words, it’s not possible to switch horses in the middle of the stream or transfer ones samaya with ones root guru to another teacher, even his son. I think we all know that by now.
Many people have crashed and burned trying to imitate Trungpa Rinpoche.
Some people have tried to imitate his drinking.
Lives have been destroyed.
Some people have tried to imitate his womanizing.
Relationships have been destroyed.
Some try and imitate his wealth, power and psuedo-royal pretensions.
How is that working out?
Maybe it would be better to imitate his practice and devotion,
Better stil, find our own practice and devotion.
Thank you Chris Keyser. Truer words are rarely spoken.
“Since then the Sakyong has said that he has been proving himself to us for several years and now….” Please forgive my ignorance but I didn’t know he had anything to prove. Does anyone know what he was proving for years? Is he done proving? Did I miss something important?
I don’t know if Ellen reads anything here, but apart from thanking you/her for a very lucid and touching composition, your wedding story reminds me a little of my own. My (ex) wife’s father was head of the CDU Party for the Saar Province in Germany; CDU = Christian Democratic Union (I think) and he was very involved with church-related initiatives of all sorts, although I am not sure if he was all that deeply religious, per se, himself. So to honor his role in society and since he was hosting the wedding as the father of the bride I suggested we have it in the local Roman Catholic church which he had so much supported, helped start the school and so forth. He liked the idea – although he told me later it wouldn’t have mattered to him at all one way or another. We had to get a special dispensation from the Senior Bishop for Central Germany (or some such) because it was well known we were both Buddhists. And for some reason, he granted it!
It wasn’t all smooth sailing though: at one point in the ceremony the sneaky priest sneakily snuck in: ‘Do you believe in God the Father etc.?” (Perhaps this is a normal part of a German ceremony, I don’t know, but certainly we were not warned of it and certainly he knew that Buddhists are ‘godless pagans’ in his parlance.) So I spontaneously replied: ‘Indubitably!”, a no-less sneakily literal translation of the Latin roots of which word could be taken to mean: in + doubt.
Peter Lieberson kindly set the Shambhala Anthem to music for the organist who played it as Uta marched up the church aisle on her father’s arm. During the ceremony I had also suggested that a group of hunter’s – in lovely lederhosen type traditional outfits – do their stirring, and very Shambhalian-esque thing (I had seen them do it earlier during a Harvest Moon ceremony the previous year and it was splendid then and splendid during the ceremony). Along with lederhosen (shorts, knee-high socks, fancy boots, funny woodsmen hats with large feathers jutting perkily heavenward), they played large circular gleaming brass horns of various sizes but all with the same circular shape, some larger than a large man, some the same size as a French horn. Splendid! Local drala glistening cheerfully in every one of the sweetly echoing notes who blasted out in fine masculine fettle and then chased each other round the echoing vaulted majesty of the church. Visions of Romans and Goths charging around in the woods, sometimes fighting each other, sometimes chasing wild boar, bear, wolves and so forth. Timeless feeling.
Perhaps we were a little insincere, not to mention pushing certain unknowable limits, with having a Roman Catholic wedding when neither of us were Roman Catholics, but all of Uta’s family were and apart from the little jig there with the Priest ‘live and on Candid Camera’ as it were, I really had no problem with it internally as I have never had a problem with fundamental Christian mores even though philosophically/spiritually it never ‘took’. In fact I was a choir boy at school in England wearing a little red cassock and that funny collar and sang one day in Salisbury Cathedral, one of the great Churches of Europe, and enjoyed doing so thoroughly.
But goodness is goodness and culture is culture and if they were all Catholics that was fine by me and that way our wedding took place within the bosom of their bedrock Saarlandische kultur.
Actually, the whole thing was rather splendid even though most of our Buddhist friends thought we were totally insane for doing it in the Church and several of them were clearly worried that the skies might fall in or something. They did later, so maybe they were right. But not that day. In any case, about twenty of them came from all over Germany, had a jolly good time, and that was that.
To Radio Free Shambhala,
It was strangely heartening to read what Ellen Mains had to say on such a painful topic in such clear, heart-felt, but direct and straightforward prose. And it seems somewhat petty—an odd sort of “one-upmanship” (of the desert)—to excoriate her for not coming out and making her feelings public, sooner. As I’m sure with many readers, her piece and the accompanying commentary on The Chronicles and here set off a sizeable chain of associations not easy to just label “thinking.” Here are a few of mine that might be useful to mention.
1. Firstly, that there is a short text by Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche—maybe an interview around the time of the Vidyadhara’s death?—where he makes clear that, in his view, the Shambhala terma and the path laid out by the Vidyadhara growing out of that profound treasure chest of insights and accompanying practices was, in and of itself, sufficient for complete realization: no Buddhism required.
2. Secondly, there’s a larger “mishap lineage” beyond just the one that we’ve come to associate with Buddhism. Maybe we could think of it in Shambhalian terms. Take for example what would have (most likely) grown out of the friendship of Thomas Merton, the Trappist monk and embodiment of Contemplative Christianity, the person the Vidyadhara said was the first genuine Westerner he had ever met, after being in the West for many years. Look at this statement from Merton’s dying-breath Bangkok Talk, December 10, 1968, following on the heels of their “auspicious coincidence” encounter in Calcutta several weeks previous, where they made plans to do a book together, the first place I ever heard of the Vidyadhara:
“For a Christian, as also, I believe, for a Buddhist, there is an essential orientation that goes beyond this or that society, this or that culture, or even this or that religion. When I said that St. Paul was attacking religious alienation I meant that really he meant very seriously what he said about ‘There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer Jew or Gentile…’ There is no longer Asian or European for the Christian. So while being open to Asian cultural things of value and using them, I think we also have to keep in mind the fact that Christianity and Buddhism, too, in their original purity, point beyond all divisions between this and that.”
Merton’s radicalization of St. Paul, of course, made knees knock amongst officials in the Vatican. But it’s easy to see why Merton and the Vidyadhara hit it off so effortlessly: Merton was actually a “Shambhalian” before the Vidyadhara received the bulk of the Shambhala terma! Catholic actually means “universal,” so Merton’s suggestion that Roman Catholic “exceptionalism” was actually “parochial” did not please the watchdogs of orthodoxy in that tradition. But no potential banishment to the “outer darkness” (where, apparently, many devoted and talented students of the Vidyadhara have been cast: “refugees” once again) can make a dent in that indestructible “primordial purity” that both Merton, and the Vidyadhara, had tapped into: realized. So, in a nutshell, for a Christian like Merton, again: no Buddhism required.
3. Thirdly, again like that brief transcript by Dilgo Khentyse Rinpoche, I have a text composed by Irv Wieder, a former sanghamate and friend, founder of Samadhi Cushions, in a box in storage somewhere. His family history was very similar to Ellen’s. She certainly would have known Irv from the Tail of the Tiger days. In that text—a sort of message in a bottle done near the end of his life—Irv did this incredible correlation of various Jewish mystical and Tibetan Buddhist terms. There was one that jumps to mind, and is in sync with what Merton realized within the Contemplative Christian tradition: a Hebrew word very similar to “kadak”—that before the beginning, after the end, and marinating the middle primordial purity we could associate with Werma Sadhana. Perhaps Ellen might want to investigate further?
Thanks to The Chronicles and RFS for continuing to provide spaces much needed for such discussions, and to Ellen for being willing to stick her neck out,
Jim Hartz
The last thing that SMR (or any of us) need is sycophants. Wouldn’t it be better to have protectors who question us when we are being unskillfull? Some of us are so ignorant we have to be whacked upside the head. I should know, the protectors have to beat my ass on a pretty regular basis. Cheerfull day to all!
Impermance my fellow sangha members. Suffering is caused when you cling to what by it very nature is an illusion. Of course the Sakyong isn’t going to be the same as CTR and is going to have to run things as he sees fit. He will develope his own style and have his own students. CTR in the years before he died was contantly trying to get the sangha to stand up and just do it. Instead they seem to create these dramas; whine and carry on wasting time in this precious rebirth. I say get over it, if this sangha /teacher doesn’t work for you there are plenty of other wonderful opportunities out there. Leave the nest. As long as you have your practice I assure you,you will find many enriching surprises and blessings. As CTR said You can do it.
Just wanted to say that I have indeed been reading all the comments both here and care of Vajra Dog on the Chronicles. And I have been appreciative of the responses, and of the intelligence and heart being expressed. Our dathun here at Dechen Choling starts tonight and I will be absorbed with that for the next 4 weeks, but trying to listen in when I can. Thank you for your precious voices and for receiving mine.
I don’t know Ellen Mains, but I was struck by her beauty at Shambhala Mountain Center in 2008. I was there for Rigden Abhisheka, but not really enjoying myself–my husband had died the previous year and there seemed to be so many different levels of practitioners in the Shrine Room that the energy felt like a blended drink. (The program “requirements” were flexible.)
I sat beside Ellen in the shrine room. After the feast, the program coordinator was walking around the shrine room giving a talk when she stepped on my plate of food, spilling it onto the floor. She realized what she had done–she looked down–but kept on walking and talking. (Not even “Excuse me.”) Ellen looked at me wide-eyed and immediately began to help me clean up.
I was very grateful because I’d been feeling like hell and a helpful person appeared. Somebody who appeared to “get it..”
Thanks, Ellen.
Awake 108 –
Letting go is never easy, especially when one has spend one’s youth on a particular thing. Add to that an administration that crushes conversation about important topics and the ideas of a “King,” a “family lineage,” and a patriarchal attitude–and the situation becomes worse.
So, to dismiss all of this as “whining” is overly simplistic. People are sharing thoughts that they’ve been told are wrong–and are finding out that other people, friends, feel the same way.
Similarly, if you don’t want to hear it….
Awake 108 –
That is, you’re coming from a very different place, having been away since the mid-80s. People on this list have been criticized plenty. Your feeling of having “The Answer” may be true for now–but obviously it’s just a matter of time before the rug is pulled out from under you, again.
Welcome back.
Sandy Pontius
I had just decided to return to our sangha when I learned of the Vajradhara Thangka debate. There is no question in my mind that the rich tapestry of our lineage is what hooked me, and in particular, with Vajradhara before me, it is a depth charge. It is the sangha, each individual, traveling with our common inspiration, that continues to keep this alive for me. Perhaps I could have found a more comfortable seat with a new teacher, I don’t know. But what I found was that it is this glorious stew pot of broken hearts and limitless manifestations and potential that makes the teachings a full meal. This particular sentient being is still on the path as a result of the great number of the Vidyadhara’s students who have been working tirelessly, and have transmitted the essence of the buddhadharma in absolutely pure, wonderful, magical, skillful and wise ways. No score cards, no credentials, simply a transmission of the dharma from one human kindness to another. May this sangha flourish.
I’m back only to express my concern about the sharing of this kind of in fighting on the WWW. You all speak of Samaya( rather confusing at any time). In the sanghas I hang out in, the number1 samaya of all is not to speak negatively about the dharma teachers and fellow sanga members. The idea is to try see things with pure vision (a dzogchen term). Many people are discovering CTR for the first time they are excited and enthused then they run into this stuff. I’m sorry you are having these problems but the world is watching and airing this sort of thing isn’t a good idea because it undermind the faith of others. Please don’t do this. Find another way.
Funny you call yourself awake when your living in some kind of idealistic dream world. This is a charnel ground. Have fun.
awake108 writes:
the number1 samaya of all is not to speak negatively about the dharma teachers and fellow sanga members
I think this is a good rule and an important one. If there’s something wrong with a dharma teacher, the old saying “buyer beware” applies, and in most cases nothing more need be said.
But if a teacher confuses his own teachings with that of another highly regarded teacher, via public marketing programs and job titles and so on, not to mention control over the latter teacher’s sangha and real estate, then I think in such a case he might be opening the door to feedback of a more public nature.
Awake:
The banner, held by a garuda, on some of the older symbols of Vajradhatu says: “the proclamation of the truth is fearless”. Disparaging teachers is one thing, but critical intelligence is another. If you can’t distinguish between the two, that may be a source of confusion for you. People discovering VCTR for the first time need to hear all the angles. Then they can make up their own minds. There is no “party line” or dogma in Buddhism. It’s all about personal experience. The criticism here is necessary and will continue…no matter how nice you would like things to be. Wanting things to be a certain way is, in itself, dogma.
Dear awake108, as you say, the concept of samaya is difficult in itself. I have a different perspective from you for a few different reasons:
1) Only a certain percentage–I would even guess a relatively small minority–of all those who are part of Shambhala have taken samaya with SMR. Or even CTR. Even if I have that figure wrong and it is much larger, the fact remains that a large number of people are part of “the Kingdom of Shambhala” (doing programs when they can etc.) without having pledged undying loyalty to it. This means that they are not bound by the samaya you speak of in the first place.
This situation also points again to the problem of eliding church and state. Within the intimate one-to-one connection between guru and student, and touching matters of spiritual instruction, there is samaya. Within the larger institutional framework, in which samaya-bound students share centres, physical community, and (as here) virtual space with those who have not taken and in many cases never will take samaya, very, very different rules, procedures, and behaviours must apply. Many who contribute here are simply not in the situation you refer to. And this will always be the case.
2) Even with regard to those who have taken samaya, there will be different conceptions of what this entails in specific situations, of course. The point you make about not speaking negatively of dharma teachers and fellow sangha members is obviously very sound. But it’s also not a simple “commandment” in the biblical style, right? Nothing for us can be, since we know all concepts are empty, relative. Of course this is true even for non-fundamentalist followers of the bible–”Thou shalt not kill” sounds so simple and obvious … until we start thinking about questions like self-defence, vegetarianism, abortion, and so on. How much more this is so with the idea of “not speaking negatively”. Having seen harm caused, and the dynamic which brought this about still in place, and maybe even more entrenched as time goes by, is it “negative” to point out the danger of this dynamic? Is it “negative” to criticize when one feels deep within one’s heart that self-deception is operating, generating confusion and harm?
3) Finally, with regard to this forum, being public, having the potential to undermine faith: I feel the greater danger at this point is a certain kind of faith **not** being undermined, ie blind faith. Any newcomer to Buddhism who reads the posts on this site thoughtfully will come across a lot of intelligence, I think, and also devotion. They will, or ought to at least, come away with the impression that the buddhadharma is open and robust enough to accommodate searching debate. This is a very good impression to come away with, and fortunately it also happens to be true: Buddhism really is that open.
If as a result of reading the posts here someone develops certain doubts about the state of SI today, this need hardly discourage them from pursuing the study and practice of dharma. If it comes to it for them, there are many other Tibetan Buddhist sanghas out there, not to mention Zen and vipassana sanghas, without Kings and Queens, Courts, Kasung, Acharyas, an explicitly stated political mission and agenda, a seemingly remote and secretive bureaucracy which has no difficulty squaring total non-acknowledgement of fellow sangha members with the dharma, and so on. In fact, SI is the only Buddhist sangha with all of these things, and the various issues that have sprung from them.
It can only help someone inquiring into Buddhism to know upfront that there are no guarantees, that institutions are always far from perfect and can go astray, that people have different views and need to be having open, heartfelt communication with one another.
There is one good thing I can say about faith. It’s corpse is very delicious and energizing. Best Heruka food going.
Sandy, I see via the world wide web that your husband was Ben Pontius. I’m out of touch, I guess, and didn’t know he had died. What a wonderful man he was, though I didn’t know him well.
Not A Womanizer -
There has been so much discussion recently, on so many lists. A recent comment is bothering me, and I want to respond. Sorry, I don’t know on which of the lists I read it.
Someone referred to the Vidyadhara’s drinking and womanizing. I object to the suggestion that he was womanizing. Womanizing sounds callous, insensitive and lacking intimacy. None of that describes his relationships with women or anybody or anything else.
Thanks for reading
Madeline
Yes, You are right. I am the one who said it. What I should have said it that the imitators are womanizing not the Vidyadhara. I should have clarified that.
Thanks for clearing that up. I thought womanizing was a term often applied to a married man that has sexual relations with others besides his wife. So when I get married, as long as I’m open with my wife about my extra-marital partners and I have true “intimate” connections with my partners, I’m OK. Good deal!
Womanizing is an archaic term that was popular before the sexual revolution of the sixties.
According to Mirriam-Webster it means: “to pursue casual sexual relationships with multiple women”.
Certainly the term doesn’t have the clout it once did.
I would like to amend my earlier post to read;
Some people have tried to imitate his having sex with many women
Relationships have been destroyed
The word womanized was too ill defined and perhaps too loaded with negative meanings.
The point was not to be critical of Trungpa Rinpoche , the point was to be critical of imitation.
Bruce Dodds –
Thank you for your kind words about Ben. He was a wonderful man! I met him when I was 29 and he was 42. He thought I was too young for him, but 20 years later we moved from friendship to marriage (we’d been living in different countries and then on opposite sides of the US) . I am happy to have spent the end of his life with him; I love(d) him very much. Thanks again.
Best,
Sandy
To Madeline Schreiber, John Tischer, and Company,
I was on staff recently, once again, at the annual Chapman Program at SMC, a 10-day intensive “inter-term” program for college Honors students, mostly from Orange, CA.
In terms of the Vidyadhara’s relationships with women and drinking, a question often comes up–everyone’s heard the stories—and I guess there’s now a preparation for that question blended into the new Teacher Training Programs. In fact, I once gave a talk on the subject at the Kansas Merton Conference in Atchison: sponsored by Benedictine nuns. They heard me out, and they got it: a Catholic friend said, “Jim, you really got out on a limb there, but when you cited Trungpa saying ‘the greatest pleasure is spiritual pleasure,’ they got it: you hit a homerun.” Basically, the Sisters understood the post-50’s context of the 60’s explosion of sex and questioning authority, and they knew of Merton’s great appreciation for Trungpa Rinpoche: they were willing to listen.
But, today, we have to realize, that the right-wing cultural warriors have won–and I’ve been saying this for quite a few years: the United States has been re-bozo’d back into the 50’s, if not the 40’s. Forget all the gadgets and sophistication around communications technology, and so forth–and the average teenager’s awareness of porn: this is the Pre Bob Dylan Era. Among other things, God is “on our side” once again, and with a vengeance, and “promiscuity” and “drinking” are bad. Hence, in the view of most of these Chapman kids–this year, 18 girls and 4 boys–Trungpa Rinpoche was “bad”–very bad–twice over bad. Period. End of story; end of conversation.
This had come up at lunch one day. I gave a little thumbnail sketch of what I thought was going on, when someone asked—and not just for the women in the “old days,” the usual focus of “sexual misconduct”–in that, the Pre A.I.D.S. Era–but for the men—the overall “gestalt”–as well: the community dynamic of what was going on in that situation. And then, the teachings the Vidyadhara presented in that context : like “working with emotions,” and so forth. Nothing like a little sexual jealousy to cause to pop out the “hidden neurosis” of the pious male meditator: one moment, Mister Big Sitter; the next moment, a Seething Gorilla! And so on: the cultural dynamic, in that regard, was multi-faceted.
Clearly, these girls did not want to hear about it, at all. So, I took that as a warning. And, needless to say, during a discussion period of my talk on the 4 Noble Truths, the question came up–and I told the young woman, “Why don’t we discuss it after the talk,” but the professor who founded the program 20 years ago and an old friend, gave me the high sign: go ahead, give it a shot, try to answer.
So I tried. The girls wouldn’t even let me finish. There minds were made up (and as one young man, who I became good friends with–one of my MI students, into Nietzsche and Marx, so no problem for me, as I’ve done alot of work with both engaging the Vidyadhara’s teachings with them–he had overheard the girls discussing the question: they basically “ambushed” me, minds made up, and solidified–Trungpa BAD, in fact EXTRA BAD): they wouldn’t even let me finish.
Anything I tried to say was, in their minds, a priori attempts to “justify” the “un-justifiable”–for what needed no “justification” in my view: I was just trying to explain the late 60’s/early 70’s cultural context, and how the Vidyadhara simply used what was already going on to present the teachings, rather than trying to make us over into pious pee-wee Tibetans, in maroon robes, hawking flowers at the airport! Trungpa’s behavior was intrinsically BAD. Period. End of story. I mean, really, they were howling. I thought I was suddenly in Tennessee West, or the embodiment of Hester Prynne and Little Pearl, the day they stepped out of the Salem jail to be greeted by a jeering crowd of Puritans!
And that’s not the worst part of it—that part is understandable. But then this NAROPA yoga teacher, and psychotherapy buff, very popular with the kids and a regular in SMC’s 57 Varities of Yoga and Mediation programming, chimes in: “Yes, Trungpa was an alcoholic, and he harmed people.” I’ve heard those same two phrases pigeonholing Trungpa Rinpoche before, and coming from the same source: NAROPA’s artsy-fartsy psychotherapy contingent, an ongoing rot in the sangha—again, in my view. Another young Kasung male on staff added to that: “He was an alcoholic.” Other confirmations. So, the conventional neo-moralistic view of the girls was confirmed, and Trungpa—along with many of you/us—banished to the “outer darkness”: condemned to irrelevantness. Progress in the dharma has come to Sherwood Forest.
Imagine if you made even a slight teensy-weensy criticism of the Sakyong in that context: you’d be bounced out the door so fast your head would never stop spinning! Dismissive comments about the Vidyadhara are accommodated, if not, I wonder, possibly—behind the scenes—even encouraged? And no wonder people deface the Vidyadhara’s portrait at NAROPA–with faculty as depicted above. No wonder another young Kasung I met in Shambhala Training can say to me that, basically, “Trungpa was a fuck up; the Sakyong is the real thing.” I’ve also heard it said several times, by younger students: “Trungpa’s teachings often ‘don’t make sense’; the Sakyong’s ‘always make sense.’”
So, here we are: what a mess. A real heartbreaker.
Jim Hartz
P.S. To Sandy Pontius: knew Ben alittle. I remember a joke we cracked: he was having some crazy problem with his bank. We came up with, not First National Bank, but First RATIONAL Bank–”rational” in the sense of canon lawyers and censors in the Catholic Church burning you at the stake because “they love you.” Sorry to hear he’s moved on.
Thanks, Jim Hatz, for your very vivid portrayal of the current 1950’s mood. I agree that “the right-wing cultural warriors have won” and “the United States has been re-bozo’d back into the 50’s.” That resonates with what I read from Chris Hedges on the American national scene – you know of him? Hedges graduated from Harvard Divinity School and was for nearly two decades a foreign correspondent for The New York Times. His latest book is Empire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle. I regard him as one of the deeper thinking political writers today.
What Hedges says about rising illiteracy certainly shows up among the young who post comments on the internet, and can’t seem to put a meaningful sentence together with any depth of insight. I attribute this to the destruction of public education by the right wing, which I’ve watched happen since the Reagan era. The young also are not learning history, obviously. They seem to think history is irrelevant – a typical right-wing blind spot – and so will participate in repeating it. I got so frustrated with the quality of the younger students – and these were “graduate students” – that I quit teaching online through Naropa last year.
Anyway, Hedges’ latest article, “Calling All Rebels,” ends with this: “Those who do not rebel in our age of totalitarian capitalism and who convince themselves that there is no alternative to collaboration are complicit in their own enslavement. They commit spiritual and moral suicide.” http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/03/08-2
This resonates with me. We could say the same about spiritual materialism, which is in the same league as totalitarian capitalism. I think that Trungpa Rinpoche was just the right kind of teacher to work with our generation – we who dare to question authority AND materialism. He gave us the tools for resisting the cultural trance and the cult of conformity by finding our own confidence and courage within ourselves – as Ellen has demonstrated – and as VCTR exemplified. Think for yourselves and liberate yourselves: that was the basic message of the Buddha and VCTR.
I wonder what SMR’s loyal students think fearlessness means.
Repressed and fearfull people can benefit greatly from hinayana, mahayana teachings. Tantra scares them. Maybe that is the protectors at work. They are not ready to hear it yet. There are good reasons to keep some teachings secret.
Yes, Jim, it is very difficult for people who didn’t meet the Vidyadhara to
understand what he was like in person…just as it was impossible for anyone
who knew him to pigeon hole him. One could say it’s not their fault. Even at the time, people who were blown away by his books had a hard time with
his person…his energy and outrageousness…me included. But they probably never ever in their lives have experienced such precision, wisdom and compassion…such communication that gets to the root of the question like a laser. He was unique….even among the great teachers of his time.
Our karma was unbelievably fortunate.
Hi Jim,
Re your comments, the young people you describe who look upon CTR as “superbad” may be somewhat representative of their generation. But keep in mind that the people CTR attracted in the early and mid seventies were a subset and a very unusual collection of people, even by the standards of a very unusual historical wave that had just crested (CTR himself came out of that wave, which could also then be characterized as part of his lineage).
Beyond that, though, I think some subset of various ongoing generations has made a very strong connection with him and his teachings, maybe even more now than ever. That subset abides
I say this with some confidence because I have been meeting such people, of all ages, who have no affiliation with or even knowledge of Shambhala Int and its centers and community, but who are reading CTR’s books, studying them, really getting it about spiritual materialism. They do have the “but he was an alcoholic” question (of course!), but for many that’s held in the same koanic wonder as ours, and it’s not an obstacle to their getting zapped by Chogyam Trungpa’s voice.
By the way, CTR gives the most direct (if still maybe impenetrable) glimpse into his experience of drinking in talk 1 of “The Embodiment of all the Siddhas” (KCL, 1975; it’s in the Sadhana of Mahamudra Sourcebook).
Back to today’s CTR fanboys and girls: they pick up on that you’re a student of CTR, without your mentioning his name. Something comes through. I’ve had this happen to me. And, they are awestruck that you actually met and studied – live! – with Trungpa. This makes a demand on you, that you have to live up to.
That’s great: they call Trungpa out of you, and not just out of you but out of the background all around you. They are already there – more than you are.
CTR is in front, not in back.
Cheers,
Mark
I don’t think CTR’s behavior had anything to do with the 60s or 70s cultural context, though it may have been easier to get away with pre-Internet age.
It’s not even as unusual as people make it out to be– I mean, Saint Francis gave a sermon in the nude once in church, according to reports. Saint Andreas (10th century) would drink out of puddles, sleep in the dirt, drink wine like a fish drinks water, and spend time with prostitutes. One of the Saint Symeon’s used to relieve himself in public, throw stones at passerbys, drink wine in taverns and associate with harlots. These are canonized saints, for Christ’s sake!
I think the problem is that we have a fantasy world of what spirituality or practice is– which is something safe which reinforces our belief in a separate “I”– and then we seek out symbols and collaborators and “gurus” to reinforce that fantasy world.
By the way, I gave some books by John Perks and Diana Mukpo to some friends a few years ago, and they absolutely loved them.
re: Jim’s post
While I agree with the general milieu of comments on totalitarian capitalism and the charnel ground we have in the U.S., I think it is a bit superficial to criticize the kids. Of course it is always fun to poke a few jabs, but that’s easy because they aren’t so skilled at hiding their (un)hidden agendas.
I don’t think I’m saying anything you don’t already know or practice, but clearly it is important to open to the karma of these kids and really make a connection. What is the armor of patience? “Not having to make things come out your way.”
I think what Mark said is true. Direct students of CTR can do a lot of transmitting and being, without a lot of didactic teaching.
“I wonder what SMR’s loyal students think fearlessness means.”
I’ll take a stab at that, Suzanne.
Not being afraid of your pain, and not letting it keep you from extending yourself into chaotic situations with other human beings. Recognizing that the possibility of genuineness isn’t conditioned by circumstance.
I continue to submit that some of the characterizations of the Sakyong’s students do not match my experience, and that the potential for establishing a heartfelt and intelligent connection with authentic dharma is as real and alive in our generation as it was in yours. We are all fuckups to some extent…as soon as we think we “got it,” it’s probably time to get back to the cushion or engage in a little honest reflection on our view.
And I’m not necessarily a huge fan of my generation, but it’s also not hard to argue that the aggressive “challenge” of the 60s led directly to the rise of the very backlash that brought us Reagan and the Bushes (not to mention obsessive boomer-inspired consumerism). Push people into a corner and they bare their fangs.
Dear Ashoka, May I suggest that if the 60’s generation – that is, those who ‘came of age’ during the 1960s – had not rebelled against the conformity of the 1950’s, that the world would be even more locked down and depleted of life force than it is now? If the 60’s generation had not begun the explorations ‘out of the box’ that led to ecological awareness and activism, holistic health, political awareness, civil rights, women’s liberation, etc., the military industrial complex and consumerism probably would have just moved faster to control and consume the Earth and human freedom and dignity than they have.
The ‘backlash’ was poised even before the rebellion. I recommend everyone, esp. younger generations, watch The Century of the Self, which explains very well how manipulated people were before and during the 60’s. But not everyone in the 60’s generation allowed themselves to be manipulated into consumerism and corporatism. You can read a synopsis of the BBC series at http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/century_of_the_self.shtml and you can watch the 4 parts on Google Video at http://video.google.com/videosearch?client=safari&rls=en&q=Century+of+the+Self&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=nSOaS5DHA87s-AbE6fj8AQ&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=5&ved=0CCAQqwQwBA#
What you call ‘obsessive boomer-inspired consumerism’ is I think a misreading of what inspired consumerism. If you watch The Century of the Self, you will see the effort that ‘business interests’ put into manipulating people into materialistic consumerism. I was born in 1944, during the war, so I actually witnessed and experienced the ‘progress’ of consumerism and corporatism in the USA. One side of my family was heavily influenced by the John Birch Society (right-wing, corporatist, anti-communist propaganda machine in California), and the other side was earthy cattle ranchers in Nevada. I saw the contrast, but both my parents were totally manipulated by propaganda. I sought a sane way out of the confusion of the 60’s in Buddhism. I first read CTR in 1970, right after the climax of the 60’s in street violence (by the police) in Berkeley, CA. At least some of the students attracted to CTR were ‘back-to-the-land’ types. I was one of those.
Edward said, “I don’t think CTR’s behavior had anything to do with the 60s or 70s cultural context.” Um, well, gee, Edward, I don’t think you’ve thought that out very well. CTR ‘got down’ with us, he lived with us in all our funkiness. What Ashoka says about fearlessness – “Not being afraid of your pain, and not letting it keep you from extending yourself into chaotic situations with other human beings. Recognizing that the possibility of genuineness isn’t conditioned by circumstance.” – is actually a good description of CTR’s fearlessness. It’s true that he was more outrageous than we were. But it’s hard for me to take CTR out of the context of his students, since his teachings were so accurately attuned to what was going on with us. He taught us how to become ‘ladies and gentlemen’ from the ground up.
Dear Ashoka,
The sixties were a reaction to the pie-in-the-sky socially engineered materialism and spiritual vacuum of the fifties. Power took back control by assassinating King, Malcom X, Fred Hampton, the Kennedys…the true leaders of that time and Zeitgeist. Nixon, Regan et. al., were business as usual, after power had blunted the movement of openness. The biggest difference between my generation and yours is that we questioned authority, and yours doesn’t. That is a result of social and economic engineering. It’s not a backlash due to the sixties. You’ve been trained to be sheep.
PS to Ashoka re: “Push people into a corner and they bare their fangs.” That statement can be read from different points of view, but I think that the juggernaut of techno-corporatist-militarism was already in place during the 60’s and that the ‘backlash’ is kind of a myth. After all, the horrible mess that was the Vietnam War, was already going on in the 60’s. Student activism just gave the existing juggernaut an excuse to do what they had intended to do all along, which was to control everything for their own profit. Which they did with a vengeance.
The thing that concerns and puzzles me about young people who have never known anything but the consumer society, and grew up with a sense of entitlement, is that they seem to be unprepared for the baring of fangs that is starting to erupt already in the US and elsewhere due to the inevitable contraction of energy and economy. If young people don’t know history, don’t understand that economic contraction (ie, unemployment) is the result of decades of delusional right-wing policies, and don’t get their news from anything but the corporate media, they can end up joining the reactionary youth armies that Hitler, MaoTse Tung and Pol Pot manipulated into doing their bidding. Un-initiated, un-individuated people – who have not learned to think for themselves and uncritically believe conventional stories – like the ones Jim Hartz cites, are likely to be baring their fangs at the scapegoats rather than at those who created the crises in the first place.
Hi Suzanne. It seems to me that current movements for social justice (disjointed though they may be), certainly owe much to the 60s generation’s boundary-pressing inspiration to change the world. But to lead people, you have to seduce them (one of the many fruitional characteristics of the Vidyadhara’s mind), and it’s my view that some of the understandable unskillfulness that arose in the process of the boomer generation’s extrication of itself from the cultural mores of euro-american society were quite easily exploited by those with an interest in preserving the status quo. That’s not necessarily a knock on your generation, which was only human and did achieve a lot, but I offer that huge numbers of my generation are not only aware of social injustice, they work hard to combat it. The sexual revolution, the drug revolution…both had wisdom aspects but also led to some awful excesses that were not helpful to anyone. This is a complex issue, but I think there is some latent wisdom in modern apathy; the brick-throwers of the WTO protests were not inspiring to most (what world would those people build?), politicians are mistrusted if not reviled, and the party of the 60s doesn’t have the same shine when it’s seen through the prism of the 70s and the 80s, no matter whose “fault” it was. There is a bit of a soup of confusion right now. On the one hand, it’s a little challenging to consider how to “change” things when there isn’t always even consensus on what changes need to occur, and on the other hand, those with “the answer” often seem preachy and neurotic. That said, it would be inaccurate to suggest that there isn’t a tremendous amount of awareness of the world’s grief present among those who were fortunate enough to be born with inquisitive minds. I mean there’s no question we’re assholes but don’t short sell our wisdom, either. Anyway to keep this on topic: SMR rulez.
“…and the party of the 60s doesn’t have the same shine when it’s seen through the prism of the 70s and the 80s, no matter whose “fault” it was.”
A little of the seeing of the sixties through alternate tinted glasses is here:
it wasn’t “just” a party…people died…during the civil rights and anti-war
movements. Power has gotten much smarter….for one thing, they now control the media…they inflame people with trivial issues so that intelligence is sidetracked from the real issues. Apathy is just what they want.
I understand the apathy: the political revolution was a failure, even while, culturally, it was a success. Now, it seems quite difficult to organize any kind of coherent movement, what with surveillance being more ubiquitous. Maybe twitter and other forms of instant communication are a way around this, but people that even protest are put into data bases and increasingly are regarded as terroristic. As predicted in “1984″ by Orwell, people are encouraged to report “suspicious behavior” Apathy and paranoia…a powerful mix. We need to party more than ever!
But I don’t see the same chain of command as SMR as I did see with the Vidyadhara, and he (Chogyam Trungpa) was pretty tight compared to other Tibetan teachers.
SMR gives his dispatches through his wife, The Sakyong Wangmo, David Brown, John Rockwell, and other acharyas. There is no two way street.
The Sakyong rarely takes questions and answers, nor his office (at least with my experience), doesn’t answer hard copy mailings. It’s almost like he turned into a L. Ron Hubbard. I probably just made some friends not like me just now.
“The sixties were a reaction to the pie-in-the-sky socially engineered materialism and spiritual vacuum of the fifties.”
Yes. And the conformity of the fifties was a reaction to the mind stopping violence and chaos of the Second World War. And the Second World War was a reaction to the economic deprivation of the Great Depression and the punitive provisions of the Treaty of Versailles. And the Great Depression was a reaction to the economic excesses of the 1920s. Etc. Ad infinitum.
There is no “best generation”.
It gives me great joy to see the new practitioners who pack the Boston Shambhala Center every weekend for programs and weekday nights for classes and practice sessions. I think Adam Lobel is wonderful. I saw Susan Piver speaking to a group of 40 last night (a Thursday night!) at a signing at the Center for her new book “Wisdom of a Broken Heart” and she was warm and vulnerable and great.
I have no doubt that this generation will gain more wisdom, more quickly than our generation as a result of CTR’s teachings and SMR’s teachings as well as the sangha who have practiced before them.
Then, maybe, we will shift the karma of the society a little and a few of them (or us) — will escape the cycle altogether.
Jim,
I wasn’t suggesting that our generation was “better”. I was saying that we’ve been demonized and trivialized because inherent in our culture of the time was a threat to power….the same as Tienamin square, the Czech revolt of ‘68, Tibet in ‘59. I guess you could go back to the American and French revolutions to see the emergence of the paradigm of freedom in the modern age.
“I have no doubt that this generation will gain more wisdom, more quickly than our generation as a result of CTR’s teachings and SMR’s teachings as well as the sangha who have practiced before them.”
That would be the point of the evolution of Buddhism in the West,
wouldn’t it…as long as the teachings are taught from “freshly baked bread” minds, not corporate enthusiasts? I’m sure there are many wonderful teachers still teaching in SI.
Ashoka, re: “the brick-throwers of the WTO protests,” are you not aware of the ‘agent provocateur’ phenomenon? Agent provocateurs are police officers dressed up as protesters – usually as ‘anarchists’ in black masks and clothing – who break windows and cause property damage, thereby giving the uniformed police an excuse to use excessive force on peaceful protesters. I’ve heard reports of this occurring at all the major protests since the WTO meeting in Seattle in 1999, to which a bunch of my Naropa students went. Organized nonviolent protests are very organized to prevent people from acting out. And they report on the agent provocateurs that they spot. But the corporate media blame the ‘anarchists’ for the actions of the riot police. They do not report on police brutality – all the innocent people who have sustained very serious, unprovoked injuries. So you are citing a ‘conventional story’ from the corporate media. Believing and repeating these media stories, which are disinformation, is one of the things that have given nonviolent demonstrations a bad name.
But I am long past recommending street protests to young people. The corporate power state is far too brutal these days. Now they are allowing the military to operate domestically in order to quell social unrest, which is expected due to economic decline. That does not excuse apathy, however, which is utterly disempowering. If young people want change, or to address injustice or environmental degradation, they need to look behind the curtain of the corporate media and smarten up about how power works in the US and elsewhere.
What I do recommend is that people start learning how to grow their own food and organize local ‘transition’ movements to prepare for energy and food shortages. Shambhala centers could do this among themselves if they were told how close the crises are to manifesting. But I doubt that kind of information is in the book of ‘SMR rulez.’ If you think that the consumer society status quo will continue, you might find it useful to learn how to deal with post-traumatic-stress disorder.
For those interested in how power works, try
The Business Roundtable: The Most Powerful Corporate Business Club Most Americans Have Never Heard of
By David DeGraw, Amped Status
Posted on March 12, 2010, Printed on March 12, 2010
http://www.alternet.org/story/145996/
I’m no fan of the WTO or the IMF. And you’re right, it’s unfair to mischaracterize those protests, which were very important, as predominantly violent. I don’t think street protests change policy very often but they do raise awareness…even though I think its a bit of a shitstorm when everybody’s on the streets waving signs and trying to establish their view on samsara as correct. My point was that activists are often not very compelling people, which might be some insight into why they don’t inspire more action. I’m aware of the stifling effect of the corporate media (Chomsky isn’t on CNN that often), etc etc. This is politics we’re talking about though. Samsara trying to fight samsara. It was just a response to the idea that this generation is a bunch of air-headed fools. That’s simplistic and very inaccurate; it’s more complex than that. I think that is an uninsightful view.
Of course it’s not in the “book of ‘SMR rulez.’ Teachers transmit the dharma, which is probably at its heart about developing insight through the process of seeing the nature of conceptual thoughts about politics and whatnot. Anyway I’m probably overstepping myself again. Just a thought.
I’ve just had a chance to read Ellen’s great post over at Chronicles and wanted to say: thanks. It’s really beautifully written. And I’m quite struck with the powerful analogy you begin with regarding religious exclusion.
This too is a good reminder: VCTR’s thought about “join[ing] the inconceivable flash of wakefulness together with your own tradition.”
I hope your thoughts will reach and touch many people.
Sorry, Ashoka, but I must disagree again, re: “My point was that activists are often not very compelling people, which might be some insight into why they don’t inspire more action.” Such sweeping generalizations from someone so young is at least slightly amusing. Perhaps it is because so many activists have been assassinated (as Tischer pointed out) that the media has been able to skillfully spin people’s fear of sticking their necks out into seeing activists as ‘uncharismatic’ and “un-compelling,” which is ridiculous. All the progressive social movements that have gained ground for civil rights and environmental protections have been led by charismatic leaders: Wilberforce in the UK ended the slave trade, Gandhi got British imperialism out of India, MLK, Jr. led the civil rights movement, Malcolm X inspired Black people to take back their dignity and stop trying to be white. (The last 3 were murdered.) All social struggles that have relieved oppression have been led by charismatic leaders. Another charismatic activist and historian who catalogued and dramatized those struggles, Howard Zinn, just died. I also know of very compelling and charismatic Native American activists, and I’ve known many inspiring environmental activists.
The problem, from my pov, is the corporatism that has infiltrated and contaminated the environmental movement during the last 20 yrs – co-oped it, as we used to say – and probably every other NGO. So, again, the right wing has been quite successful in emasculating grassroots social movements on all fronts: assassinate popular leaders who threaten the status quo, demonize them in the media as ‘terrorists,’ make them appear like unattractive losers to the celebrity obsessed MTV generation, seduce the youth into neutered forms of ’sustainability jobs,’ where they actually cannot do anything substantive, etc.
Re: ” the idea that this generation is a bunch of air-headed fools. That’s simplistic and very inaccurate.” Yes, it is simplistic and inaccurate, and I am not aware than anyone here has characterized the younger generation in that way. This is a rhetorical trick, Ashoka. You are implying that you are defending the younger generation from accusations which nobody has actually made. What I and Jim Hartz have said is actually much more specific. And I’ll put it more bluntly here: Young people, including you Ashoka, need to realize how brainwashed and manipulated you have been, get your facts right, learn a little history, so you can actually teach the dharma, which is truth – instead of spouting off urban legends that are revisionist history. Questioning authority, getting grounded in reality, knowing your facts based on study – all of this is part of growing up and being able to stand on your own ground. Then you can argue with grown ups.
Remember: the entitlements your generation assumes were all won through the heroic efforts of people in the past, some of whom lost their lives for their convictions. Those entitlements are being eroded now – and not by activists or other scapegoats.
Suzanne, good article.
Honestly it was better than I expected it to be. It is clear to me that you understand just how much of a mess we are in. Yes, my generation is in danger. The most watched, the most controlled. The lowest access to decent education and affordable non-poisonous health care. . . .
with lots of slick technology. . . ever.
There are a lot of us who are aware of what is going on. But understanding the best course of action is complicated when one begins to …
see, just how far down the rabbit hole goes.
http://www.constitution.org/mercier/incon.htm , http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936# ,
Those are good places to start. then take your pick of big brother documentaries, there are tons, and you begin to know what we are up against. We are not stupid, not all of us, nor are we spiritually vacuous. You are in fact controlled by propaganda, just not as much as the jack in the box set. You are still engaged in elitist bickering, it doesn’t help anyone.
BTW “Berkley in the Sixties” is a good documentary for seeing how past movements played into the hands of the ‘power structure’ as you called it. Just watch the interviews with more than intellect[heart]. I think you will see what I mean.
Agree to disagree. I’ve spent a number of years working with activists so this isn’t completely out of left field. Carry on.
Suzanne, re your farming-related suggestions: as you are no doubt aware, shortly before he died, CTR warned about a coming collapse. Percolating through even in the mainstream media, the most notable of which is a recent article in Foreign Affairs (will try to find link later) about the fallacy of the Spenglerian/Toynbean/Gibbonean ‘cyclic’ view of rise and decline of civilisations and the suggestion that in fact all is continuously balanced on a knife edge and that at certain points things can very abruptly flip from balance to collapse. Personally I think both views are forms of conceptual extremism, but each has something to offer. In any case, here you have one of the most prominent publicly available ‘international elite’ media organs warning that the US is in danger of imminent collapse. Many financial publications, also more in the mainstream, have been echoing such possibilities meaning that it is part of a ‘pre-programming’ narrative and thus increasingly likely to take place.
For those interested in such things, suggest researching the who and hows of the formation of the Federal Reserve, including material written by Edward G Griffin whose guide/mentor in this study was Ezra Pound, the intellectually brilliant poet and dissident who was shipped back to the US after our victory in WW II, if I remember correctly, in an animal cage on a freighter and then locked up in an insane asylum many years. He had the audacity to point out during the war that all was not as it seemed. Also ‘Day of Deceit’ by Stinnet which showcases many of the documents (those which had not been shredded in 1941) pertaining to the Pearl Harbour attack, released in 1995 after an extended 50 years versus the usual 25, and which show that the whole ’surprise attack’ business was nothing more than a well-managed story designed to get Congress to approve US entry into the war without objection from the populace. The same sort of thing happened to get the US into WW I.
And so it goes.
I think if and as the collapse unfolds (although I hope it doesn’t) the great fault line emerging will be that between local and national/central. Just as our sangha was part of the 60s-70’s culture of the times (and also worth researching the trail of LSD development in Army labs and how it made it through various suspiciously supported ‘rock bands’ around L.A. into the wider American populace), so we will be part of whatever culture emerges during any ‘collapse’ period. And that is when the local/national dynamic will become of crucial importance. I think you are right to suggest focusing on it.
Ashoka, grassroots activists or big NGO ‘activists’? It makes a difference these days.
I agree to disagree – best wishes to all the younger generations.
Love,
Suzanne
Thanks, Ashley, for the info. If you can find the link, please post. I am aware of the many current discussions about slow or sudden collapse, though I wasn’t aware of the Foreign Affairs article. I’d like to take a look at it.
As an ecocentric, ecologically informed person (rather than anthropocentric and focused only on human affairs), I regard bioregional localization to be the best possibility for the continuation of our species (and of sanity). Centralized, top-heavy organizations/civilizations/empires are ecologically destructive and therefore unsustainable, therefore vulnerable to collapse.
One of the reasons I was attracted to CTR in the early 70’s was that he was so grounded and realistic. He saw the coming collapse and dark age, which I intuitively sensed from a young age. We really have been living in an ‘empire of illusion’ (Chris Hedges’ title of latest book) – all my life! So dharma and ecology have been my twin paths, which have reinforced each other. I am dedicated to seeing both survive the collapse of the empire of illusion.
Thanks for picking up on the localization point, Ash.
From a Google on ‘Foreign Affairs Collapse’, here it is:
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/65987/niall-ferguson/complexity-and-collapse
Need to register to read whole thing. It’s fairly typical FA stuff, citing various questionable events or interpretations as a priori facts, but the important thing is the narrative thrust. Hearing the narrative is always key with this sort of material.
There was an article on CBS Market Watch – a mainstream web financial e-zine service – citing this article. I think CBS qualifies as mainstream. More and more of this nature with a similar narrative has been easing into the MSM of late. Perhaps they are trying to co-opt a narrative that has been gaining traction in the ‘underground’ blogosphere and talk radio circuits (esp. Republican Broadcasting Network which is beginning to organize a serious third party movement versus just complaining about corruption all the time) in order to later conflate that narrative into fantasy-level absurdity, a favorite and effective trick. Or another tactic is to plant a story ahead of time so that when things unfold similarly, it has an easier time being accepted as an explanation of how things are going. In other words, if the possibility that the US can collapse at all (still to this day regarded by most upstanding talking heads as an absurd, hysterical notion peddled only by idiots and ‘terrorist types’), and this gradually becomes an acceptable contemplation, then it becomes possible to present some type of chaos (food delivery dysfunction, mass power failures etc.) as evidence of imminent collapse from which ‘they’ can step forward bravely to save us all and we will praise their foresight and leadership on bended knee and with tears of gratitude, whilst thankfully agreeing to pay them globally administered and collected carbon tax for every minute of bio-heat our organisms generate for the rest of our lives!!! (or whatever!) ( I have read that very soon Canadian power bills will have a very small – several cent – global carbon tax component which will be sent to the UN or something. If true, it is starting…)
But we shall see…
What the heck does this have to do with samaya?, People promoting there philosophies, and the the impending world doom?
Just for the record, I among my fellow high school students organized rallies against the Vietnam War. I was 14 at the time. Rinpoche (Chogyam Trungpa) said protesting against the Vietnam War protests made matters worse. On the other hand, it took mainstreamed people like Walter Cronkite and Daniel Elsberg (The Pentagon Papers) to explain to America we were fighting a losing battle.
Rob
PS Who the heck is “Gentle Flower”? I hate it when people hide behind facades.
Thanks Suzanne, for putting up the link: “Calling all Rebels”. (See above). It totally resonated with what we are dealing with here in Corporate Shambhala, Not surprising that SMR and company have tried to link themselves with the likes of Goldman Sachs, I had purchased Chris Hedges book on the the Christian Right and its take over of America” a few years ago, and I didn’t realize he had become so radicalized. Here are just a few quotes from that article that resonate with what we are dealing with now, a microcosm of the larger context nationally..
“The power structure and its liberal apologists dismiss the rebel as impractical and see the rebel’s outsider stance as counterproductive. They condemn the rebel for expressing anger at injustice. The elites and their apologists call for calm and patience. They use the hypocritical language of spirituality, compromise, generosity and compassion to argue that the only alternative is to accept and work with the systems of power. The rebel, however, is beholden to a moral commitment that makes it impossible to stand with the power elite”
“There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part; you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you’ve got to make it stop,” Mario Savio said in 1964. “And you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all.”
Goldman-Sachs, and right-wing corporate types, spousing liberal ,compassionate hollow rhetoric, while fleecing the sheep, joined up with Tibetan, aritocratic/lama elitism, feudal style, to also fleece you of all your money and energy with the LADRANG. Sound familiar? Listened to the Audio of Silberstien and Lodro in Haliffax. , could hardly bear it. No answers to about 4-5 questions from the audiences about “what is a ladrang”. Just google it folks , you will get more information yourselves.
And all under the “brand name” of Shambhala and CTR. Amazing.
Perhaps the happy devotees of SMR can also be incorporated as serfs into the Sakong’s ladrang?, since ladrangs also included all the serfs and slaves and their children as part of the lama’s inheritable wealth that was passed on to the next incarnate lama.
I suggest we do our own research on ladrangs, (actually spelled labrang). Silberstein said that the ladrang “had no equivalent in the West” Actually the closest was southern slavery.
I recommend: Melvyn Goldstein, a scholar on Tibet, who has respect for the culture but is saddened , as many others, that now Tibetans believe there own myth created by our indefatigable “orientalism”.
“It is precisely in unconscious involuntary manifestations that all evil lies.
You do not yet understand and cannot imagine all the results of this evil.
But the time will come when you will understand.” G.I. Gurdjieff 1916
At the Vajrayogini feast in San Francisco last Saturday a new sadhaka pointed out that there’s a big difference between devotion and worship. Today a friend sent me an email message that Josh Silberstein and Lodro Rinzler opined at their recent Halifax community talk that the Sakyong could succeed HH Dalai Lama as leader of the Tibetan people and the highest Tibetan Buddhist lama instead of HH Karmapa 17. Good heavens! Is this true? Imagine what the Vidyadhara would think of such an outlandish idea?
I can still see Rinpoche translating for HH Karmapa 16 at a Vajrayogini empowerment in the new Dorje Dzong shrineroom in January 1977. Rinpoche was half bowed over in humility, deference, and devotion to His Holiness. It was the greatest demonstration of devotion I have ever witnessed.
Forgive me, but I always assumed humility was a central pillar of the Buddha’s teachings.
That isn’t devotion. That is wishful thinking.
The Shambhala Buddhist Centers are the only Centers Buddhist I know of that doesn’t do longevity chants for the Dalai Lama. That is fine with me, and I do know there has been an off and on history between the Galugpas, the Kaygyus and the Nyingmas, but as far as I know, the current Dalai Lama is a pretty cool guy, and is very concerned about preserving the culture of Tibet. Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche pretty much specified we weren’t to go backwards, but forward to present Bodhichitta to our Western Society.
Please confirm where they got your source. I recall some Board Of Directors saying very wishful thinking things back in the 70s and 80s.
Rob
” Today a friend sent me an email message that Josh Silberstein and Lodro Rinzler opined at their recent Halifax community talk that the Sakyong could succeed HH Dalai Lama as leader of the Tibetan people and the highest Tibetan Buddhist lama instead of HH Karmapa 17. Good heavens! Is this true? ”
Dear Chris K.,
I attended that talk but do not recollect hearing this. But that does not mean it was not opined as per your friend’s email. Maybe I just did not pick up on it. Can anyone find this in the recording of that meeting and transcribe that part for us here?
Thanks,
Madeline
Sorry folks. My source was apparently misinformed, and in my horror I passed on inaccurate information.
Here’s some good news, however. Thrangu Rinpoche will lead the first North American Kagyu Monlam prayer festival for world peace at Karma Triyana Dharmacakra this July 13th – July 17. According to Thrangu Rinpoche, aspiration prayers are the most effective practice Buddhists can do to help our troubled world.
I don’t see the problem with the alleged comments, per se.
I think it’s great if someone feels his guru is highly qualified, some kind of senior Rinpoche. Good on them (as they say down under), if someone feels that way.
If SMR was highly realized, I might feel slightly better about him changing and/or eliminating CTR’s teachings, organizations, and lineages.
As it is, I’m not sure he should be in a hurry to do such things. Unless we’re first a good student and a good follower, it’s questionable that we would be qualified to lead others.
I listened to that talk and did not get that inference viz. SMR becoming the D.L. (which in any case is a role created by a Chinese Emperor).
One of the speakers mentioned there is no Western parallel. Well, although perhaps true in a very exact, limited sense, generally speaking two basic parallels come to mind, and could be many more, namely:
a) the Pope – who presides over not only a church but an internationally recognised territory outside the authority of any nation-state (the Vatican City);
b) Royal lineages in Europe, including, for example, the Windsors of Great Britain who have issues involving personal/family assets and how this interfaces with British law, their rights as individuals versus public servants and so on. In other words: who owns the Crown Jewels, Balmoral, Windsor Castle and Buckingham Palace, not to mention the huge holdings of the Prince of Wales in Southern England, still to this day I believe one of the largest ‘LandLords’ in Great Britain (lit. translation of ‘landlord’ into Tibetan = ‘Sawang’ btw).
In the discussion which ensued I noticed three main things:
a) it was relatively friendly which is nice to witness, with both speakers and questioners being articulate
b) the ladrang (?) questions were not answered precisely at all, and if they are going on a 14-city tour armed with that level of detail, it is a pity
c) Steve Baker’s (to me) very important question of ‘where’s the government in the Kalapa Center?’ went unaddressed except insofar as one of the speakers said that they were aware of the issue since they felt ‘heat’ – another extremely vague answer that I am not even sure was in response to his query. To me this echoes what I feel has been a multi-decade long lack of build on the nyen level, i.e. that there is also an institutional sangha level which has its own mandates to hold assets, transfer authority, appoint and dismiss officials and so forth.
I don’t think they are ‘elephants in the room’, rather important issues which have simply not been addressed in any official or thorough way and which urgently require far more attention and, hopefully thereby, resolution / forward momentum.
Finally, fwliw, I think I have a position with all this, based on having been on here for about a month after not having considered these things very much in many years:
I have very similar feelings to what Ellen expressed in her article, feelings involving a sense of being disconnected, struggling with related samaya issues and so forth; at the same time I do not feel that the teachings are being perverted and so forth by SMR. I do feel there is some problem with the leadership in general, which obviously includes SMR but is not limited to him, but suspect that it is not just a question of what ‘they’ (the leadership) has been or is doing but also what ‘we’ (the general citizenry) has been or – more importantly – has not been doing.
There lies the ‘rub’; but that said, I do not think it will turn into rubble. It just might be that many of us will no longer be around for the ongoing institutional journey. That would be a pity.
But that said, I think this sense of disconnection is very important to address and am extremely pleased to see that this is happening, thanks in no small part to the Chronicles and RFS.
I believe that many years ago in Halifax there was a Dekyong Council whose leadership also sat in on Vajradhatu Board meetings – such as they were in those days with most of the Board scattered all over the US, or maybe there was an equivalent body in Halifax (Crinean era)? In any case, I don’t recall reading any minutes of the Dekyong Council meetings and wonder if they ever worked to develop a robust sangha-level ‘Nyen’ authority and administration. Probably they had neither the time nor resources to do so, but it’s the sort of thing that needs to happen, imo, and one of the last important mandalic/organizational developments recommended by CTR.
to subscribe
posted a comment related to the above on the Chronicles on the Mains article page.
http://www.chronicleproject.com/stories_176.html
The Tibetans barely know who the Sakyong is (the last Mipham Rinpoche, yes). The Tibetans very much know who the current Karmapa is.
The Dalai Lama and Thrangu Rinpoche has taken the current Karmapa under their wing. They have not taken the current Sakyong under their wing, nor tutored him like they did with H.H..
I recall an overly enthusiastic student mentioned in the mid 90s seriously wanted the Sakyong to be ruler of not just the four greater lineages, but ALL the Buddhist lineages in the World on sangha talk.
Most of us (westerners) are barely Buddhist from a historical prospective. We’ve just begun. The talk of the Dalai Lama being replaced by the Sakyong at this point seems…well silly.
The subject of this post is not about the Vajradhara thangka, but this thread is where most of the traffic is currently happening.
Around Shambhala Day an e-mail was sent by President Reoch to tantrikas about “Our Future: Building Strength in the Year of Retreat,” which contains a link to a budget:
https://shambhala.org/giving/retreatbudget.php
This is an interesting budget for at least two reasons: 1. If you add the amounts given in the first 3 categories (money that goes directly to the Sakyong and those who are working for him directly) the total is $673,000!
2. If you go back to the letter from Richard Reoch and click on “donate,” almost at the bottom of the page appear the words: “United States donors can make cheques out to ‘Our Future’ and send them to Historic Highland Building, 885 Arapahoe, Boulder, CO 80302.” I found this confusing and did a little digging. I’m sorry that I can’t reveal my sources, but donations made to “Our Future” are actually donations to the Sakyong Ladrang.
If you haven’t already read my article on RFS called “Out of Balance and Unsustainable: Shambhala Mandala Financial Picture” (November, 2009), this provides as much information about the Ladrang as I was able to learn. I don’t want to sound like I am blowing my own conch, but the Ladrang is so opaque, and what is being said and written about it is so confusing, that some of you, at least, might want to know a little more about it.
Barbara,
thank you for being such a reliable and determined whistle blower. I appreciate all of your posts for their high quality of reliable journalism and integrity, and for the resulting information about the disturbing situations that they seem to expose. Ignorance is definitely not bliss in this case!!!
Thank you very much for this!!!. The whole financial situation is upsetting to me as well.
thanks again,
Ginny
Yes, thank you, Barbara! These parts are particularly relevant: “If you add the amounts given in the first 3 categories (money that goes directly to the Sakyong and those who are working for him directly) the total is $673,000!” 2/3 of a million dollars for a year of retreat??? How can they justify that?
And: “donations made to “Our Future” are actually donations to the Sakyong Ladrang.” What do they mean by “Our” in “Our Future”? Will the Sakyong’s future be the same as ‘our’s’ when all the money is going to him? Is the institution of Shambhala International being supported by these donations? Is any thought being given to the wellbeing of the sangha as the economy deteriorates? Doesn’t sound like it. Is faith in the Dear Leader and the Divine Child going to be enough to sustain the centers and the sangha in the tough times ahead?
Time to come down to Earth.
If you go to: http://www.sakyongladrang.org/, it makes it pretty clear what the funds are intent for: It says:
“The Sakyong Ladrang is committed to the protection and support of the Sakyong lineage. The prosperity of the Sakyong Ladrang is essential to ensuring the continuity and transmission of the Shambhala teachings on basic goodness, the fundamental ground of enlightened society.”
The writer seems to confuse that giving lots of money to the Sakyong and The Sakyong Wangmo and their families is transmitting basic goodness. If you chexk out the other links, it eaborates a little more, but the messages seems pretty clear. To attain enlightment by giving money, also clear ‘”The notion of offering is that if we want to accomplish something, it is better to give. Gathering merit by making offerings, we are able to attain the noble qualities—the outer, inner, and ultimate aspects.”
Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche
Who is writing these websites? Also, was “Our Future” presented as a seperate organization with different goals?
Rob
Yes, I find the $400,000 per annum for a retreat year somewhat extraordinary, especially without any sort of detail, and also given that it apparently doesn’t cover $177,000 of house payments for Halifax and Koln, i.e. $577,000 in total. We are not a huge group and that is the sort of annual expense that only multi-millionaires incur, especially given that I gather much of the time he is going to be in India which is not the most expensive place in the world.
In the community meeting, the two officials justified this only in terms of the expenses that would be incurred for SMR’s traveling from retreat for two major programs, whereas of course the program budgets could quite easily cover such expenses, making their answer highly unsatisfactory.
But also, when you add it all up, we are talking about roughly about $10.00 a month per member, so from another point of view, it’s not all that outrageous.
Rediculous…absurd…too much money….
He ain’t worth it, folks…
he don’t got it
ain’t that smart
ain’t enlightened
got no power
doesn’t even know
right from wrong…..
doesn’t even know
right from wrong….
busted…
you want the dharma?
look elsewhere,
Ash, you’re kidding, right??? (about the $10 for each member.) think how much could be accomplished with that 10$ per member in other areas of the mandala like salaries at SI etc., the international finance office is a complete mess, under staffed.
the Sangha is being drained.
Ginny, I basically agree. But $10 a month is very different from $100 a month; in other words, it’s not totally out of the ballpark.
(Am assuming roughly 5,000 members but have no idea what the actual number is).
Just as with normal populations, I believe the tax ratio should go something like this:
10% for the top/federal tier
25% for the middle/administrative/practice center/provincial tier
65% for the local tier.
In other words, if you pay $50 a month in dues, $5.00 goes to the Court, $12.50 to S.I. and $32.50 goes to the local Center. And I think in an ideal world it should work the same in countries/nations. But both models assume a far larger role for local/municipal governments/organisations than the current paradigms, which are all trending towards increased centralisation, both in private and public sectors (which have become essentially merged of late in the top, para-local spheres).
I also suspect that if dues were set up this way as a matter of policy, that more people would donate on a regular basis; but when the funds are being allocated to various ever-changing initiatives far from one’s immediate location, there is a distance and disconnect exacerbated by the often very large numbers involved relative to one’s personal and local budgetary scale.
In any case, both growth and basic population numbers come from the ground, mostly in Centers with under 100 people; that is where most of the financial resources, therefore, should be allocated.
There is an interesting parallel between Nova Scotia and S.I. It seems that since Confederation, N.S. has gone from being the wealthiest Province to one of the poorest, and this was the case already by the 1970’s, basically 100 years after Confederation. Similarly, the small towns and rural areas in N.S. have been essentially bled dry by Halifax, (the same sort of thing evidenced in many part of the UK -until recently- and France, where London and Paris respectively did the same thing).
Municipal Govts. in Canada (and the US) increasingly are in charge of sewage, garbage collection, road repair and little else. They certainly don’t have the power to take on any major initiatives except in a few large cities with more financial clout. But even here if the rural culture starts dying out, and then also the productive manufacturing base, then the system starts hollowing out from underneath and below, which is actually the core.
If we try to strengthen our mandala mainly by building up the international, top level initiatives, this might engender some sort of energy which flows out through to the local situations, but it is quite risky and can only be done once in a while in a concerted push, certainly not as an ongoing paradigm. Yet I suspect this is the model we have been using for quite some time.
Of course I am so out of touch that perhaps this is a very inaccurate perception.
Call A Spade A Spade
Is it ok for a Buddhist to follow a shaman,
one that channels a deity, (he says), and
do what he says? Does that fall under
the “Shambhala umbrella’?
Can someone reinterpret the dharma
to suit one’s fancy? Is everything the
leader does ok because he does it, and
because he’s smarter than me, because
he has some secret of the world that I
don’t know? I know what my answer is,
and I think it’s wrong to keep quiet.
[This is not any kind of response to John's poem. It just happens to come at this time.]
American English
We are effusive
We are corny
We say things like I love you
We hug people we don’t even know
We confide in strangers
We speak the dharma of the West
Who knows what we will do
We invented Hollywood
We invented Howdy Doody *
We invented mass media
All for goodness sake
We are marvelous
We are nuts
We speak a multi-layered English
The Kings’, the Queens’
The Jacks’ and the Jokers’
And the most terrific slang
And wonder of wonders
We have heard the dharma
It has spoken to us @*!*@
And we have responded
Both we and our language are versatile
The dharma speaks our language
And our language speaks the dharma
Our many layered language is spectacular
I look forward to Hollywood dharma
I look forward to TV dharma
I’d like to see Evangelical dharma
And Rasta dharma
And Haitian dharma
I am proud to have been born
And to appear to continue to exist
I am proud to be an american canadian
Of the 20th and 21st centuries
Eh Ma Ho & Holy Moly
The dharma comes to the west!
Madeline
Nova Scotia
March 2010
* Olden Days Television Wooden Ventriloquist’s Dummy
The Shambhala mandala has never recoverd from the take-over of a “corporate” mentality that began in the 90’s and we are seeing the fruits of it now in the “ladrang.” entity, a culmination of this corporate mentality and a simultaneous regression to an atavistic , feudal model that functioned as a Tibetan corporate model that put all the wealth and property in the hands of the few, keeping the poor forever poor for generations in Tibet. It was the major source of corruption in feudal Tibet and led, eventually to its destruction.
One of the functions of a labrang was to operate as credit for the serfs: In “Struggle for modern Tibet” Melvyn Goldstein explains this function of the labrang:
“For many in rural Tibet, loans were a recurring necessity. In addition to special one-time occasions such as deaths or weddings, bad harvests…frequently left farming households short of grain for food and seed for planting.. as as there were no banks in Tibet, peasants families borrowed grain from the lords of estates and particularly from monasteries and labrang, which functioned in formally as Tibet’s main lenders. Moneylending, moreover, was lucrative, since interest rates were not regulated in Tibet, and most lenders, including the monasteries charged high interest-from 25 percent at the top to a minimum of 10 percent.
But it was not just the high interest rates that were the problem. More devastating was the widespread present of ancient loans, that is to say, loans that had been inherited by households from past generations through a process called “putting interest on top of interest” (tib. Gyela gye gya). Loans taken in spring came due the following fall when the new crop was harvested. Throughout rural Tibet, therefore, monasteries and other lenders sent loan collectors to the villages in the fall to collect their loans. Farmers who were unable to repay their loans would sometimes be allowed to pay just the interest and sometimes the lenders simply took an animal…. in lieu of a payment, but frequently the farmer was allowed to add the interest on to the principal. Because this happened repeatedly over generations, the principal on many loans became so huge that households could at best hope only to pay the interest due each year…Consequently many families had enormous debts carried down from previous generations, sometimes from several sources and often so distant that they no longer knew who had originally taken the loan. And no matter how hard they worked, there was no way for them to get out from under this debt burden-the interest payments kept them perpetually poor. Such ancient loans were clearly one of the most impoverishing aspects of rural Tibetan life”
The ladrang is being presented by SI as connected with the “blessings” of the lineage, so that when you think “ladrang” you will think “blessings” and Dharma. It would be more accurate to think “Citibank.”
Correction: The quotes on the corporate qualities of a “labrang” in Tibet actually came from : “The History of Modern Tibet: 1913-1951, by Melvyn Goldstein, not “Struggles for Modern Tibet”. The latter is an autobiography of Tashi Tsering , a realistic account of an ordinary Tibetan , who became a dancer for the Potala Palace and worked tirelessly for a “middle way” between Chinese authoritarian rule and Tibet’s old order.
Both are antidotes to the narrow presentation we have been given of the so-called “Shangri-lai” by the theocratic, ruling elite and present a more realistic history of what life was like for the ordinary Tibetan ..
Oral Instructions
I am struck by how much of our core teachings the newer students are missing because these are oral instructions and not possible to codify into a curriculum.
For example: All of us fortunate ones who were able to study with the Vidyadhara were schooled extensively into a personal understanding of such concepts as complete openness, negativity and negative negativity, the buddhist path of non-aggression and how to identify aggression in ourselves, the connection between allowing the outbreath to dissolve into space and the beginning realization of mahamudra/maha ati and so on. There are many more topics like these that these students may never hear about.
I suspect that there are some of the newer students whose desire to learn from the older students brings them to this site. (Or there may be only one versatile person with many personalities and names) I wonder if, for their sake, those of us who feel they can, might write a paragraph now and then, from our experience, on the many oral instructions we have received. This could be very beneficial for those students who are motivated to expand their understanding in this way. There is no other vehicle for the transmission of the oral instructions (ear whispered lineage) but from us.
Over the last few years I have become positively impressed with how the media of email and internet can assist in sharing dharma. Indeed, email is a dialect all its own, with weaknesses and also particular strengths. So, this is our new medium and maybe we can put it further into the service of dharma by using it to write about these special topics that could otherwise be forgotten.
Thank you for reading. This site has meant a lot to me.
It has given me a feeling of strength where otherwise there would be an expanding void.
Welcome Dark Matter
Come on down
As we say with . . .
Love from Nova Scotia
Madeline
Ellen Mains described some of the pain that many older students are going through. I’ve heard some newer ones who took vows with the Sakyong where doubts have also bought up much conflict and fear. However, regardless the amount of pain and marginalization that has been taking place for perhaps 15 or more years these concerns have not yet been addressed wholeheartedly. The top ranking teacher Kalapa Ācārya Lobel described the standard attitude of the Sakyong towards dissenters as being “they can come or they don’t have to” and “he just goes forward with his vision”. In the face of conflicts and request for clear decisions “he somehow responds to questions but it is neither this nor that”. Kalapa Ācārya Lobel applauded such indifference and vagueness as being “drala”, “above enemy”, a sign of wisdom. His words are 1 hour 15 minutes into this talk: http://www.halifax.shambhala.org/recordings/alobel09_09_09.mp3 . In the same gathering the newly chosen director of the main international centre publicly repudiated questioners, who for years were waiting for answers, telling them they were just whining. Such prolonged unwillingness to acknowledge seriously the major concerns of the Sangha will not help much. It is also impoverishing transmissionwise to consider superfluous the opinion of anyone who worked lifelong and tirelessly to build Shambhala or was appointed by VCTR in person to hand down any teaching at all. Besides undermining the notion of lineage it causes elders to be disrespected. Many have been demoted or dismissed as childish whiners, samaya breakers, old farts, fixated nostalgics, non-practitioners, obstructers and the rest of epithets they are regularly labeled with. Moreover these people have no intention of being obstructive nor of imposing their personal opinions but are trying to contribute their best to transmit what they have been asked to pass on and stop it from being edited. The Shambhala Buddhist debate is just one controversy but there are a series of procedures, teachings, emphasis, choices and energy that were essential and distinguished Vajradhatu from any other spiritual or new age approach, including any other presentation of Dharma. By ignoring what some are trying to pass on such uniqueness and innovation is gradually being lost and SI is regressing back imitating the antiquated Tibetan model which the VCTR considered deceptive even in its native country.
For what said regarding being labeled I sympathize completely with the people who choose to remain anonymous and am doing so myself. I frankly don’t understand why we are pressed to give our names (by some of the Chronicles readers) and be further tagged. Apologies to those who asked for anonymity to be abolished. I realize it can be offensive because it stands out as evidence of mistrust, fear of free expression and buried disaffection, especially to those who want to believe their group promotes the opposite. But perhaps they are able to understand that being treated as un unworthy and unwanted impediment forces one to hide in the dark or leave.
“But perhaps they are able to understand that being treated as un unworthy and unwanted impediment forces one to hide in the dark or leave”
“leave” sure that’s possible
“hide in the dark” Well that’s just disgusting.
Good to have the recording again of the talk so people can listen to it.
To some extent I think SI is going its way with the Sakyong and they wont be deterred from that whatever a large portion of the sangha says about SB and other matters.
But for me the die has been somewhat cast – personally I dont see SB having much impact on the world as it will just be seen as another Buddhist school and not a creator of secular meditation path for the millions out there.
I see the ‘development’ of SB as an aberration in the development of the meditative path in the world.
Heard somewhere that CTR said he heard the ‘foreign dralas’ calling him in Tibet when he was young, the foreign dralas being the west. I dont know for sure but I have a feeling that it will be up to us as individuals and small groups to really bring this enlightened society to pass…….I dont think now SI is the correct vehicle to manifest these teachings in their entirety. The establishment of ways of life/religions seem to have always started from the bottom up in western history.
Best
Rita Ashworth
Madeleine wrote:
” Oral Instructions..
I am struck by how much of our core teachings the newer students are missing because these are oral instructions and not possible to codify into a curriculum.”
Yes Indeed.
I listen (mostly) to quite a few CDs,( DVDs) and audio tapes by Trungpa Rinpoche, and they include a sense of living presence of the teachings. Each answer he gives is precisely to that moment for the student, and so unique!! His spoken teachings are living treasures, delivered from a profound place of realization and skillful means for whatever situation it is, and if there could , perhaps , be more occasions to listen to or watch these materials, it would be another helpful way to propagate them among newer students. They are so PERSONAL and to the point.
Ginny
Did Adam Lobel actually said that (“His words are 1 hour 15 minutes into this talk: http://www.halifax.shambhala.org/recordings/alobel09_09_09.mp3“)?
“The top ranking teacher Kalapa Ācārya Lobel described the standard attitude of the Sakyong towards dissenters as being “they can come or they don’t have to” and “he just goes forward with his vision”.
I really don’t want to listen to an MP3 for that long to verify this. Like a lot of things, it could have been taken out of context.
If it is true, it would be like throwing the baby out with the bath water in a sieve.
“Oral instructions: I am struck by how much of our core teachings the newer students are missing because these are oral instructions and not possible to codify into a curriculum.” (suggested by Madeline – Hi, Madeline, long time, no see.)
Two things came to mind:
1. “Don’t look at people like they have dollar signs on their foreheads.” The Vidyadhara said this in a Vajradhatu staff meeting in about 1985. I took it to mean that even if we were fundraising, which I was at the time, we should see people as human beings and not just prospective donors. Ie, don’t just look at people in terms of what you can get out of them. Seems relevant – given all the fundraising going on in SI.
2. Space. Space. Space. Space was a core teaching for meditation and daily life. Give it some space. Let the breath/ thought dissolve into space. See/feel the space around the thought. It seemed to me that learning to become comfortable with space, groundlessness, was an essential instruction. With the Vidyadhara, we became used to expecting to have ‘the rug pulled out’ from under us, and the point was to learn to be OK – ‘keep our seats’ – with that and to have a sense of humor about it. It was part of getting a feel for “egolessness” and, of course, death. Altogether letting go of security and territory as a daily practice. Being spacious. How can we be fearless if we don’t?
I have no idea whether current students of SMR are getting the space transmission. But I’ll bet other old dogs can remember other ’space’ teachings and stories.
Suzanne
Quote sent to me by Jim Hartz, attributed to the Vidyadhara from a 1967 diary:
“There are many people that are more learned than I am, more elevated in their wisdom. However, I have never made a difference between the spiritual and the temporal. If I understand the ultimate aspect of dharma, there is the ultimate aspect of the temporal. And if I maintain the ultimate aspect of the temporal, this must be in harmony with the dharma. I alone am the one who presents the tradition of thinking this way.”
I cannot verify the authenticity of this quote. I’ve never seen or heard about it before. But it is a powerful statement that rings true to my experience of the Vidyadhara.
Suzanne
I believe the Vidyadhara wrote this in a poem he wrote while living in England in the mid-1960s.
It was included in a newsletter from the Nalanda Translation Committee a few years ago.
Yes why I said SB wont work completely for this word is because I ‘believe’ there is more than one holder of the shambhala teachings living on this earth. For example sakyong means earth protector –are we really saying that there are not more earth protectors in other religions and none? That would be a big jump to do that – who really knows about this stuff –the vastness of the shambhala teachings?
I suspect this is why Michael Chender got the order from CTR to visit Gerald Red Elk. Perhaps he was an earth protector –perhaps ‘you’ hiding in the corner are really an earth protector! I dont know for sure but I think we must really consider this. If Rinpoche ‘received’ the teachings surely people on the same wavelength will receive them too –logical says Mr Spock!
Anyway yes what did really CTR want – separate shambhala centres-did he talk to people about their construction –how they should be –some one must know about this.
Heres my scenario two separate streams within same building again but rooms for Vajrayana Buddhism and shambhala practice with perhaps more emphasis on shambhala. Its a possibility –why I say going back to the ‘old’ style is because of the earth protector background and peoples profound connection with drala in their own religious stance or non-stance one may say also. Also I just dont know about CTR what he did on this earth – what he ‘planted’ in peoples heads and also one could say aswell physical environments.
On another tack has any one listened to Ray’s talk on tantra on his website where he talks about Sakyamuni Buddha and his display of tantric practices- its really interesting talk –hes very good –he also talks about the wandering tantric yogis before the establishment of monasticism –so in reality the Buddha’s teachings were primarily for householders in the very ‘first’ place –interesting. This talk I think is also relevant to shambhala because of the King/Queen motif. I also think if you read in depth about monotheistic religions aswell you will find the female/male aspect discussed also –so thats why I think the shambhala teachings are relevant to the theistic teachings. Loving kindness for example within Christianity does that have a ‘feminine aspect’ –it would be interesting to discuss this with feminist theologians to see what they say.
Yes why shambhala coming forth? Perhaps the King/Queen motif which exemplifies supreme confidence – and also the prevalence of motif in all religions and none. Ultimately yes there is the emptiness quality to both streams but I think emptiness ‘concept’ can be met differently according to different religious traditions and none.
Well best
Rita Ashworth
I’d just like to recommend, for those who haven’t seen it, the latest response to Ellen’s writing over at Chronicles. It’s from Fionna Bright and is so powerful and beautifully written. Her experience of scapegoating, down to all its mental and physical effects, is one that I share. And I do wonder how many others…
Dear RFS Staff:
A Critical Juncture happened on RFS, about two months ago, not coincidently right at the time when Barbara’s Investigative Journalism threads were really honing in on the Ladrang, Kalapa Group, and other dubious financial entities were being exposed.
I guess the question is now: do you want to remove yourself from the “razor’s edge” where you have been serving an important purpose, i.e. to keep people AWAKE and using their critical intelligence against the forces of spiritual materialism, where ever it appears, or, do you want to succumb to the temptation to try and please moralistic, conventional status quo forces, the very forces that have enabled this spiritual materialism to thrive and prosper. It finally served the purpose to “change the subject completely.”
There is a collective unconscious we all participate in , that really doesn’t want to know, that really wants to be infantilized and stupid. Much easier to habitually keep thinking and doing what we have been doing for decades, i.e. not questioning things. So part of our collective unconscious comes to the forefront on RFS, telling us to “be good,” insulting and calling crazy anyone who thinks outside the box, or who is critical of SI and company.
It was getting too scary for some .
We live in a time where it appears that the forces of repression of the shadow side have reached a critical level, so it is no surprise that it would activate itself on RFS as well. On RFS those forces are feeling very comforted again, a feeling of things returning to normal and insipid. I can hear it in the comments. A place where one can have the pretense of sharing feelings, but where all real honest conversation has actually been repressed. You know your back in that place when there is lots and lots of flattery: “Oh I loved your comment, … or that was so insightful, translation: I wasn’t threatened in the least by what you said, my own conventional world reality and my place in it, is still intact…..
When I know that I am in a conversation, where only the appearance of honesty exists, but its underlying structure is about tight conformity, and not seeing the shadow side, only the bright, brittle, cheerful side, no matter how unconnected to reality, it makes it just discursive . Might as well just turn it into a FACEBOOK site.
What makes RFS unique is its willingness to stand the heat, and keep using one’s critical intelligence and NOT conform to those pressures. It is not easy. I hope you can stand the heat and continue using your critical investigative skills to continue to keep us connected to relative reality.
Well, Chris you have fired at everyone, how long before you turn the gun on yourself?
WOLVERINES!!!!!
I agree with you, Chris. It takes courage to see what´s going on in SI and
respond to it here. I don´t see much discussion here lately….There doesn´t seem to be another avenue for dissent. At least there´s a record of what´s been said here so far….important points that anyone can review. Hopefully that will be part of a larger legacy.
Somehow this CTR quote seems relevant to this discussion. Maybe RFS is where the “unemployed samurai” hang out and roam, observing what’s going on in the jungle.
THE TANTIRC APPROACH
The tantric approach is much more direct, deliberate, and gross. It is the fashion of the unemployed samurai. When samurai are employed by a certain tribe, they are clean-shaven, they are well-groomed, they dress well, their knives are sharpened. When samurai are unemployed, they are very gruff and rough. Their knives may be rusty, they are sloppily dressed, and they are slightly grumpy. [Chuckles] That’s the Tantric approach!
Tantric practitioners are not employed by either the laymen or the priests. They are as they are. That is why they are called siddhas. Siddha literally means, in Sanskrit, “he who works with miracles,” or “power over miracles.” But at the same time, the miracles are things as they are-literally-the literalness of things as they are. So vajrayana is very direct, very definite, obvious. It is the notion of the unemployed samurai, or the martial arts teacher who runs out of students. And siddhas are the tigers and lions and leopards that roam about in the jungle, without preying.
-Chogyam Trungpa,
From: The Teacup & The Skullcup,
Pgs. 45-46, Shambhala Publications.
I think that maybe the decline in posting here has something to do with the re-working of the site itself…. before the redesign the “Recent Comments” section made it easier to get to the newest comments, and gave you some idea where you were going — IIRC the name of the article a comment was made to was also part of the listing (I just noticed that the title is displayed when you hover over the link that is the name of the person who posted the comment). I’m not even sure if comments on the “featured” article are part of that list. The “cafe”, while useful as a container, offers no indication of new activity. So, even if there is a ton of new content there, you don’t know about it, and can only access it via scrolling down what is sometimes a VERY long page…..
In retrospect, it might have been useful to explain the User Interface changes to the visitors to the site.
Also, the “featured” article is now 6 weeks old, and that seems like years in Internet Time!
Dear Michael
You have made some interesting comments about rfs editorially but this is indeed a free site so in that respect its great for what it has done and the level of debate and inquiry is a million miles better than is happening in any Buddhist org that I have known.
My own suggestion re the site is that we should empower Mark Szp. with some bells and whistles to make the site flourish so that it can be a kind of clearing house for people setting up new groups based on CTRs teachings – so why not have a paypal section much as the Project and indeed start making donations to Mark so that he and others can get this thing together. I think the Kalapa Centre has been given 10,000 bucks to set up a website from their blog -myself I think we could raise some money worldwide to support rfs and to even finance interviews, and conferences so that would be all great -the whole
thing could be even owned by the members and then we can get some true democracy happpening-yes power to the people!
Well best from a sunny UK
Rita Ashworth
Hi Rita
No complaints at ALL regarding the work RFS has done / is doing! just User Interface feedback.
RFS has succeeded wildly as a “back channel” for communication among CTR students.
I think a PayPal link is a good idea.
It would be nice to have more articles but I guess that is down to us!
Dear Mike
Thanks for your feedback re rfs.
yes articles – we could go wider than the remit of rfs and start interviewing people outside a little -good article idea would be to get an interview with HHDKR when he comes to Canada and the US – I would suggest that Mark starts printing press cards!
Sure Andrew Safer could supply loads of interview ideas – I have supplied a few to Mark Szp. already. You could also do a Project type thingie as well -surely people would step out for this. Also the notion of getting to know more about shambhala outside of SI -many lamas would supply details I am sure as its part of Tibetan culture-that 1,000 page book that CTR lost when he came out of Tibet that also needs to be explored – I think we in the west have only begun to touch the myths, meditations based on the shambhalian teachings. Part of creating our own culture outside now of SI will be surfacing these teachings about shambhala and I would like this information to be freely available for everyone on the web, as indeed CTRs teachings. Let rfs begin to open the gates now somewhat stuck with greenbacks for the multitudes out there.
Well best from this side of the pond
Rita Ashworth
(comment re Chris’s post on facebook which I have been thinking about)
Dear Chris
I take most of your criticisms about facebook as correct –it is a veritable swamp which oozes tweeness a lot of the time, however, you can still post stuff there for the reader to clue into aswell –so I am still using it –for example watched something on Chavez that an old time friend posted which I normally would not have watched. So I dont know what are you watching on utube and could you post it for me to have a look. The whole therapy thing would be interesting to go into –have you watched any good docs on utube about that. Perhaps we can still see it as a good tool to use.
I am still not sure what is happening re Boulder and Halifax now –whats going on? One hears rumours-for example where is Ellen Mains now in her connection to the whole thing? That was a big debate on the project and now I would really like to know where she is at…..or will it take her years to unravel her position?
So yes we seem to be getting these big debates happening and then zigeridooo – nothing. Does this bode dissolution of somewhat a groupie feeling with the rfsers or just people doing stuff on their own? Myself welcome all the discussions but I would also welcome some more what shall we call it a kind of loose allegiance in the sense of may be of groups coalescing to go on a march say on an issue. So more discussion but more integrated discussion. So I dont know may be the essential problem is governance re the shambhala teachings, or then again the ideas that Shambhala will contain numerous coming teachings on what people call the divine or the experience of the present moment. I dont know I think rfsers will have to become more definitive about all their various questions and description of the teachings in relating to politics in the sense of establishing principles as to diversity and the openness of the shambhala teachings.
So yes great to have the Mains article –but whither now – perhaps also great to have another article and even more and more but that could go on forever and ever and now I think we should be really talking about what we want to see in a future shambhala enlightened society.
This loyalty aspect aswell think its being screwed to fit the present set-up in SI and Acharyas I thought who would kind of make bridges with people somewhat on the outside seem to be falling into party line….that is really,really troubling-whats going on with them as a group? Perhaps we could discuss that aswell. Would welcome posts on what CTR said about loyalty.
Well best from the UK
Rita Ashworth
“Further Signposts:”
Shambhala Mountain Center , although not advertising it on its website, will be hosting from Aug 1st through the 23rd An Andrew Cohen retreat “Enlighten Next.” Andrew Cohen is a self-appointed guru who believes that a group enlightenment, rather than individual enlightenment is possible. It is interesting that this is filling the August calendar at SMC and that I imagine it is because of their financial straits ,that this decision was made. It will provide revenue from the lodging and meals. SMC is also providing shuttle service now for the new age retreatants at 50.00 one way and 90.00 round trip. Pretty sad way to have to make money. A cab service for spiritual materialism. A look at the calendar for the upcoming summer and fall season is saturated with new age retreats such as: three “Running with the Mind of Meditation” retreats, many “Traditional Quigong,” retreats , “Lifeforce Yoga to Manage your Mood,” “Creating Sacred Garden,” (that was the most interesting), two “Healing Rhythms: A Drumming Retreats,” “Women’s Summer Practice Retreat: Yoga and Meditation,” “Backpacking Pilgrimage to the Great Stupa,” “Contemplative Hiking,” “Healing Rhythms: A Drumming Retreat to Discover your Musical Spirit,” “Quantum Breath Meditation and Yoga,” “Peace Drum Circle: Uniting the World in Rhythm,” “Illumination” the Shaman’s Way of Healing,” “Boulder Peace Ride,” “Reading the Signs of Destiny,” “Taking Stunning Photographs,” “Tibetan Cranial Training,” “Awake at Work Retreat,” “Psychotherapy as the Path to Liberation,” “Creating Joy and Passion: An Intimate Retreat for Partners,” “Introduction to Mindfulness-Stress Reduction,” two “Weekend Retreats for Writers,” “The I Ching as a Map of Social Evolution,” “ See Your Dream Job,” and on and on.
Here is Andrew Cohen’s link:
http://www.andrewcohen.org/retreats/being-becoming-2010.asp
There are several books from former students on the shadow side of this group, and I have met ex-groupies of his. There is a web log that reads like radio free shambhala:
http://whatenlightenment.blogspot.com/
And a book: “American Guru: A Story of Love Betrayal and Healing.”
Perhaps it might be helpful for us.
There is also a link now for a fund for Acharyas on Shambhala, and letters have gone out. I thought they used to get salaries? I guess not anymore. Perhaps their former salaries ( didn’t they used to make about 35,000 a year?) have been absorbed into the Ladrang, Our Future Fund”or the 750.00 dollar a day “deep retreat”.
This is an article from a blog from Andrew Cohen’s former students on “Enslavement”
It helps , I think , to put the Shambhala Inc experience of former students in a much larger context and that people everyway are starting to look at the commonalities of their experience as “enslaved devotees” and how it is set up:
“
“Then, there is the principle of unquestioned authority and rigid hierarchical top-down structure. The power moves from the top down, only! The person on the top has to be an absolute despot, otherwise there is no real authority and no real obedience, at least according to the rules of this particular game. Each higher level within the structure has to rule the lower ones by the superior commitment and morality. The lower levels have a responsibility to admonish each other or report on each other to the higher levels, ensuring cheap and all-covering policing.
The principle of bottom-up economy says that the wealth has to flow upward! An absolute ruler on the top has to exploit the slaves below him (Andrew’s students not only give thousands of dollars and pounds but they also give their time and energy worth hundreds of thousands of pounds!) For the ruler’s power to thrive, the richer he is, and the poorer the slaves are, the better.
Then there is the principle of secrecy. While information about all of the activities in the structure, accurate or distorted, is programmed to reach the top of the pyramid, nothing of importance should leak downward. Ultimately, the top only knows the real purpose and the final destination. This ensures that power always remains where it should be, at the top.
In this Set-Up, it’s the principle that morality and responsibility are relative values, subject to change according to the whim from the top. The end justifies the means. Trauma is used as a tool to create more obedient subjects, all in the name of better future. Fear (terror if need be) and guilt are applied as cohesive elements. Love and Joy are morsels to be fed to the obedient.
Going hand in hand with the principle of secrecy is the principle of rampant propaganda. The truth is a commodity in the hands of a few – the top of the structure, the absolute despot(s), is the only possessor of the ultimate truth. The despot uses propaganda to invent New Words and New Meanings. Powerful old words, like “freedom”, “love” etc. are given New Meanings and are installed from the top down to rule over actions of the lower layers. The words become the goals. Through the power of propaganda and inverted meanings human values are turned upside down; blatant truths are shouted down as lies and vice versa, or the truth is given just a lip service.
Then there is the ‘I’m god’ principle, or the principle of SUPREME CONFIDENCE. The despot has to absolutely believe in himself. Everyone else has to treat the despot as if he was a god. The fear and unquestioning adulation is the most needed food for the ‘great one’ to carry on with his mission.
Sometimes helpful , I think, to see our experiences in a larger historical context of how these situtations evolve and how they fall.
Chris, I cruised very rapidly through some of the above links and generally over the years have followed various similar stories, the latest blowup being a young Hindu guru with thousands of followers having to go on extended retreat (sorry, can’t remember his name).
I wish I could think this through in a more articulate way, but to me such stories are not so much about corruption, per se, as about the power dynamic involved with any enterprise involved with spiritual awakening. Simply put, perhaps, one could think of it in terms of riding the kundalini, or in somewhat related buddhist terms, the temptations of Mara, or ‘the greater the wisdom the greater the obstacles’ which could also be expressed as ‘the greater the obstacles the greater the wisdom’.
In other words, such endeavors are very tricky animals. I think what happens is that as the ‘force’ of awakened mind and compassion are let loose, so also can there be resultant ’snap-backs’ as ego attempts to claim that more expansive territory, along with insight and energies of all sorts, as its own.
So I guess what I am saying is that along with concern for such things when they go wrong – as seems more often than not to be the case – I find myself assuming that in most cases the initial intention, and also early realizations of such gurus, is most likely good. But the nature of the enterprise involves traveling through the entire gamut of the various heavens and hells which all of us are capable of, and indeed do, journey through. In other words, although perhaps it’s as simple as saying that some of these gurus are corrupt power seekers, perhaps it’s not, perhaps such power dynamics are an inevitable aspect of unleashing bodhicitta, and all but a few of the most skillful master gurus are able to handle such things.
Historically, most have done so by restricting their inner/secret activities to small numbers and maintaining a very discrete profile. Thinley Norbu, Rinpoche, comes to mind as a good contemporary example of this very traditional, if by no means stuffy or stilted, approach.
Dear Ash:
Of course , what you say is right, but I wonder what help it is to embed what is happening at SI in “The Age Old Story.” Soothing ourselves with the idea that this is just business as usual in the evolution of any group? Does that help us use our critical thinking about what is happening in our own spiritual journey, or does it contribute to the same apathy that has enabled this situation to develop as it has? In other words, the words and phrases we use to justify it become the justification itself. We now can say, it’s just “mara,” or “the more enlightenment, the more obstacles,” . We can say anything of course, and words can be used in many ways as propaganda, as this article says about the mechanism of cults. For example “deep retreat” in SI now means something entirely different than just 20 years ago. It now means never being alone, needing a subsidy of 750.00 dollars a day for you and your entourage and an opportunity for another large fund-raiser. “Compassion means” something else now too, at its worst it means “making nice at all times, except toward those who don’t agree with you , and at its best a theistically inspired compassion.
CTR’s mandala , although it had its share of cultists and was by no means perfect, was about “Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism”. Remember? Do Shambhalians still read that book?
That was really the point here, i.e. that in Trungpa Rinpoche’s name, SMC has become a new-age retreat center where apparently for the right monies, anyone can come and teach, even if it conflicts with the most basic tenets of the buddhadharma. Not only that, but the SMC staff will act as transport/shuttle, transporting the new-agers here and there.
It sounds like things are getting financially much worse, despite the glowing propaganda.
“Work has begun on the design for programming to be offered under the working title of
“Center for Enlightened Society”. This will be an important next step towards the
Sakyong’s long-term vision for Shambhala Mountain Center as a place people can
awaken to their inherent wisdom and compassion and come together to create a world of
living peace”.
Found the above paragraph in the 2/10 Report from SMC.
I guess the die is cast then fellow CTR students. Kiss the Rocky Mountain Dharma Center goodbye,once and for all, Hello NewAgers, let’s mingle it all together. It’s all the same, right? Perhaps Shambhala Students can mingle with Andrew Cohen’s group this summer and lift up together to create Enlightened Society.
Soon there will be a new meaning for the word “one taste.”
Fair enough Chris. I am too far away from what is happening in S.I. to have a clear sense of it and wasn’t even thinking of S.I. when I replied (which should have been on this thread).
I doubt there is a single ‘objective truth’ about it in any case: varies from person to person in terms of their own actions, virtue, motivations, view etc. So it’s neither a black and white nor grey situation: rather a multi-faceted mosaic. From certain points of view, there is corruption; from others there is bodhisattva action. Both can be simultaneously accurate.
My personal guess is that the community continues to work through a significant, long-term shape-shifting phase, which will last several generations until the role of meditation practice and tantric paths, along with the institutions shepherding such paths, are more assimilated into western culture. This is no small thing. Like many here, I have my own ideas about what is more problematic, what could be done to move that along better, but opinions are a dime a dozen and meanwhile those actually involved are doing the heavy lifting.
Sometimes things get overly centralized, sometimes overly diffused with various permutations of different elements ad infinitum.
Meanwhile, I have no doubt that the vast majority of students entering the Shambhala Way and going along through to Scorpion Seal and suchlike are doing so with good intentions and authentic practice, and their sense of sangha fellowship is uplifted and enriching. Might be wrong in this characterization, of course, since no longer actively involved, but that to me is the bottom line.This impression comes partly from occasionally skimming the Shambhala Times, but more recently from various ‘loyalist’ interlocutors here on this site, mainly from a year ago or so it seems.
Do I think there are serious issues and problems? Yes. But am not one who easily buys into demonization, for such demonization is 99.9% of the time self-generated demonic projections. I found Fioanna Bright’s letter in Ellen’s piece page on the Chronicles site very helpful in providing perspective on this, namely (from my interpretation) that we are very confused about which sort of society we are (church, corporation, country) etc. Assuming this is the case, there would doubtless be many conflicting dynamics going on, which to some will appear as pernicious corruption, and to others as side issues to be ignored, if they are even noticed. Endless.
PS Small point: when I worked there in the 80’s we provided shuttle service too. It’s necessary for those who fly in from out of State. I think even back then we charged $40.00 or some such.
Dear Ash:
Your arguments are very convincing. However, I remember a poster here quoting CTR on Werner Eckhart and EST and what CTR though about him, and he said “He should be stabbed with a knife.” I don’t think this indicated a breach of decorum, a slip-up into neurosis, or undue aggression on CTR’s part. I think it meant that he saw it as so dangerous, new age thinking, and ultimately harming the dharma that a true bodhisattva would do whatever it took to protect the dharma.
I posted Namkai Norbu Rinpoche’s concerns about Psychology and the Dharma before onRFS but it bears repeating and would apply even more so to New Ageisms in general. He thought it was so dangerous that he wrote a little booklet called “Buddhism and Psychology” in 1996, when it hadn’t even cranked up full gear. He was not against psychology and psychotherapy; it was the mingling and merging that he saw so dangerous:
“I am not at all against psychotherapy. It can have a real benefit. However, it is like modern medicine (and I am not against modern medicine at all, as everyone knows. I think we should make use of all that is available in the modern world, but see it for what it is). Psychotherapy is like a pill or a drug for specific ailment, but like medicine, it cannot cure the soul, it can only cure a local disease. People should take it when they need it , and if they need it. The idea in the West that psychotherapy is for everyone, to me is wrong. It is like treating everyone with chemotherapy, whether they have cancer or not! And if one does have cancer, one must look to find a truly qualified doctor. The same applies for therapy. I do not believe, which happens often, which is that everyone can become a therapist (Think Naropa ) I fell that , even in psychotherapy, one must be highly educated and look to work with some real rooted basis. Otherwise you can do more harm than good for people and create a lot of confusion in the patient’s mind. This does not mean that only the very traditional schools are necessarily correct and helpful; there may also be some very non-traditional approaches that are good. However, it seems impossible that one could study the human mind for one or two years (or even four years) as often happens in the West, and then open up a shop to help people, taking a little from this school or that. Psychotherapists must be very serious about their work as they are dealing with the depths of other human beings. But psychotherapy and the Dharma do not have the same goal, nor are they the same path. Doing one may help the other, as everything positive that one does will generally enhance the other facets of one’s life. The goal of psychotherapy is generally to improve one’s ability to function on this earth as it is, and in this lifetime, as it is, to help one in one’s job, with one’s children, with one’s relationship with his original family unit, the mother and the father. The Dharma is for one’s total realization, forever, for all one’s lifetimes. …
Namkai Norbu Rinpoche continues:
So the Dharma is for helping the individual to get out of samsara, while therapy is to help one to function better in samsara. AND TO MIX THE TWO IMPLIES THAT SOMEHOW THE DHARMA IS LACKING IN METHODS TO REALLY HELP PEOPLE. It is as if one were saying that the Dharma needs a little improvement, so if I add a little psychotherapy (or add drumming, running, channeling, group elevation, my addition) it will really be something powerful. However, the Dharma is a complete path… If we let the Teachings go that way, mixing and changing with every passing day, in one hundred years the Teachings will be completely diluted and nowhere will a person be able to find the real essence of the Dharma. Then the Dharma, too will pass away….. What problems could a person have with the Dharmapalas? Truthfully, it is hard to say specifically. But it is best to think about it in terms of what happens when one teaches something that is wrong, and this spreads from them to other people and could even last for generations. That means that one has been the cause of many people’s misunderstand, possibly over a long time. One has been the cause of the continuation of others’ suffering. That is heavy karma”.
Namkai Norbu Rinpoche from “Buddhism and Psychology” 1996.
So to say Ash , that this is just a phase in the evolution of the dharma, could be the really demonic influence, i.e. ego justifying what will destroy the dharma eventually. Not of course , that you are trying to do this in your justifications. But these are very very tricky times.
Well, I didn’t see anything in that programming that mixed the two per se in the sense that RMSC is being used as a hotel/conference center versus that it’s Shambhala-Vajradhatu programs that are mixing dharma and psychology or whatever. The content is generally ‘New Age / spiritual’ stuff and perhaps RMSC needs to think more carefully about who they include/exclude. In any case, it never occurred to me to label Andrew’s program as a ‘dharma program’.
Interesting re Werner E. I was at the public talk in L.A. during an HHK visit where CTR publicly skewered Werner who was sitting next to him on the stage, and during which, watching in the wings backstage before coming on to give a Black Crown ceremony I think, HHK reportedly remarked that CTR was ‘the greatest teacher since Marpa’. But that did not stop HHK from going on to be hosted by Werner who had more than ten times as many students as CTR, and whose progressive weekend level structure was copied as we put together Shambhala Training attempting to achieve a similar success on the outer numeric level, albeit providing a more authentic ‘product’ than EST.
Fwliw, when I look at the programming at RMSC I find it completely uninteresting, even contrary to our original thrust. But I believe the long-term vision for RMSC is that it become a sort of North American landmark spot, so a little like Naropa University, something with a clientele that goes way outside the periphery of the Shambhala Community per se so probably this is their first stab at stepping forward now they have acceptable facilities.
I would prefer to see things which feature shamatha meditation training taught by ‘us’ along with other studies taught by others such as: quantum physics, educational approaches, philosophy, grass roots organizing, organic farming, conflict resolution, fundraising, NGO operations, leadership training, military strategy, officer training, I-Ching studies, (traditional daoist) medical qiqong, things like that rather than New Age ’spiritual’ approaches. In other words, we provide a space, gomdens, instruction and atmospheric container, and then others come to merge that space with their own disciplines. Could be very interesting. But could it be done and if so would anyone come? I doubt it.
Or to put it another way: if not what they are doing now, what else?
Maybe back to VCTR’s original suggestion: vipashana retreat center and intensives, which to me suggests hinayana (outer level) intensive practice which is not necessarily allied with, beholden to or promoting any particular school or guru. That would be a real switch.
“Maybe back to VCTR’s original suggestion: vipashana retreat center and intensives, which to me suggests hinayana (outer level) intensive practice which is not necessarily allied with, beholden to or promoting any particular school or guru. That would be a real switch”.
Except there is still lineage; even the most radical Dzogchen teacher who thinks the time has come to discern between the cultural baggage of Buddhism and its essence , still has respect for lineage. To be without any lineage sounds sounds very iffy and could lead to the same problems. There is something about lineage, no matter how radical one gets, that haunts us, I don’t think we really can understand it conceptually or dismiss it easily without consequences. It just doesn’t seem like something one is “making up”.
Well, I was referring to an imprecise memory I have of a longer-term suggestion CTR had made viz. the future role of then RMDC in particular.
Something vaster than a sangha-mainly type practice center a la KCL, some sort of North American role, but within that context a vipashana retreat center with fairly long programs, if I remember correctly. I don’t have any detailed recollection of these hints, which I heard second hand from the Esposets when they were the Directors there back in the early to mid 80’s.
Middle age is beginning to set in and I find many such memories are gradually becoming dim!
(I think he even picked a spot near the retreat cabins beyond Marpa Point but not sure if I am misconstruing a conversation/speculation.)
Chris, thanks for the link to the “What Enlightenment?” blog. I know almost nothing about the guy. Surprised to read that his own mother (!) wrote a book denouncing him as something of a sadistic egomaniac… Anyway, the kinds of experiences many people had in that community, the forms of humiliation and emotional abuse practiced, make for quite chilling reading…
I was curious to see a video of the man himself after this and clicked on a recent one at random on his website. In it he was being interviewed by a tv station in India proclaiming the “old enlightenment” to be dead, while he is currently introducing the “new enlightenment”. The difference between the two being that the “old enlightenment” concerns itself with “what is” while the “new enlightenment” concerns itself with “what can be”. Goodness…
Dear Chris and Ash
Hi –nice to hear from you again.
From what I have briefly read about Cohen his teachings seem to be a meld of Indian religion and new ageism. Also just checked on wiki that he was a founding member of the Integral Institute, I wonder if that is true? Hope people can check the wiki piece out –it is informative.
Chris, is there any one in the New Age movement that you think is worth listening to? Would welcome your point of view on that or is it all second-rate. I ask this merely because Tami Simon on Rays website has said somethings that are favourable to Eckhart Tolle.
As to the other new-agey programmes at RMSC I believe Mr Waltcher said on the Project that this is what his vision was for the place so yes that vision is still being followed as we can see.
Yes it must cost a fortune just to keep the place ticking over so I suppose they would be in to maximising their revenues to the nth degree. So yes just checked the programmes and its seems a sort of fifty-fifty split with shambhala stuff –so yes if you took the new age stuff away could it survive –interesting question to pose.
And yes now all the splits and the discussions about SI I am sure people are hedging their bets about getting involved with the org and consequently RMSC. And any way in the states from what I see on the internet there are many places you could go to do New Age stuff and not travel half a day to get there. So yes what now for RMSC –personally I liked Ash’s prog. and all the items on that re leadership training and organic farming etc but he said it would not work so thats that it seems!
Yes funding the acharyas I thought that might happen with the proliferation of foundations being formed. So may be the plan is to have the shastris do the education as volunteers and to get the Acharyas salaried may be you could do that with taking something from the dues(maybe also increase them) and doing investments. You know when I read stuff on the SI website I am getting so much information on coporate American business setups. Its a real education-thanks SI for that! I think I could probably become a fundraiser quite easily tomorrow!
No, I jest, whats the thread title? Shambhala and the samaya connection and the Mains article of course – you could fit that into the discussion of RMSC because if its to become a place concerned mostly with creating an enlightened society on its own terms aka the present SI set-up –there will be no room there to explore shambhala teachings as being open to all. So it would kind of a hybrid New Age/shambhala Buddhism iffy place –can you have competing overall visions of the place – would not the dralas be confused?!
Also just read about the more pragmatic aspect of having the place as a kind of vipassana type retreat centre. In this connection I was thinking of Jack Kornfields set-up which seems to be flourishing –what do people think of that place stateside. From what I read of it on the internet it seems to be doing quite well. Perhaps people want something that is more down to earth and pragmatic-may be thats why Tolle is doing so well. Yes may be pragmatism is the zeitgeist of the US at the moment!
So I dont know about RMSC but I am interested in discussing it this side of the pond to just get a ‘handle’ on where people are at with the meditative life in the US because invariably what happens in the states finds it way over here in some shape or form. So it might influence what people are doing round the globe now outside of SI.
Well best
Rita Ashworth
Dear Rita:
As you probably know, Jack Kornfield was originally a Theravadin Buddhist, who together with Sharon Salzberg and Joseph Goldstein practiced as Theravadins. When they came back to the west after serious practice and study, they wanted to bring this lineage to the West in a more essential form and started the “Insight Meditation Center” in Barre, MA. Jack Kornfield went on to get his clinical doctorate in psychology and became desirous of bringing these two streams together in some way . Salzberg and Goldstein continued in the Vipassana tradition they had started in Barre, and Kornfield broke off and started Spirit Rock. A Western Buddhist Center, that has a so-called “democratic board” of senior meditation teachers, (the 21 members of the Teachers Council) most of them with psychology and therapist credentials. Partly this center was a reaction to the media exposing “Guru Abuse,” particularly sexually, so it was an attempt to eliminate the “Lama” , particularly the Tibetan Lama part of the equation, although they do invite maybe one Tibetan lama, and other visiting Theravadin lamas to teach there. When the Tibetan lama teachs, they can never teach alone, but always alongside the visiting lama, as though to keep him in check. But mostly, they are psychobuddhist therapists teaching courses. This is true of the visiting teachers list, as well. Some of the senior teachers, teach from the “Diamond Approach” a literal merging of psychology and buddhism.
Most of their programs are psychotherapeutically influenced but they still try and maintain an emphasis on vipassana retreats of various lengths. Recently Kornfield built a quite serious, solitary retreat center on the land.
At first blush this doesn’t seem so bad, but dig deeper and you see exactly what Namkai Norbu was warning us about 14 years ago.
Here’s where it has been pernicious in my view: New people, coming to the center for their meditation month-longs, have an almost 50-50 chance to be told that they first need psychotherapy before they can seriously practice, (Kornfield reports at one time that this is about 40% of the retreat ants for his two month retreats). This is a serious conflict, , because it is a form of “bait and switch”, people are coming into the center for one reason, and Kornfield and his psychotherapist/meditation instructors, puts on their “other hats” as a psychologists and make a diagnosis that this or that person needs psychotherapy” first, as though the Dharma was not enough for them. Now for some people, with serious mental illnesses, this was always true, but 40%? This means he is seeing ordinary neurosis as something very special in Westerners, and something that the Dharma is not quite enough for. Conveniently, he has a whole staff of therapists , since the majority of the senior teachers, and the visiting teachers are also therapists and have their own counseling practices. So there is a built-in referral system, also very ethically questionable and very cozy. ( I doubt the APA would approve this).
Cont……It’s like a doctor prescribing his own patented medicine when someone has come to you feeling sick and wants one type of “healing“ and the doctor prescribes this patented medicine first as though the original medicine “just wasn’t quite enough, by itself.” So Spirit Rock is doing exactly what Namkai Norbu was warning us about. Yet if you google Buddhism at Amazon, it’s not CTR’s books or Dilgo Khentse Rinpoche’s books that come up, it is Jack Kornfield’s at the very top of the list . He is very popular. He is starting to invent even new meanings , taking “The Great Perfection” and calling the it the Great Way but when you read about it, it is a potpourri of new ageism, the ONE, psychology, and the dharma , all mixed up.
And the dangers are obvious, people I meet, who have been through these Spirit Rock programs, are completely confused about the dharma, the think that Jungian therapy is equal and a partner with the dharma, they want to discuss archetypes ( I like Jung and archetypes, don’t get me wrong) when we are listening to tapes on Dream Yoga as part of the Four Yogas of Naropa. They go to therapists and self-help groups more often then they practice the dharma, they chase after this shaman, and the next self-help new age cure. There are a number of the here who also have a Tibetan Lama as their teacher and it is all the same to them. This lama has gone back to Gampopa and the four noble truths again, teaching the fundamentals. Even he must have noticed finally, that something was terribly amiss in all this. But these feel that they couldn’t function without this adjuncts to their practice. “Quigong is as important as Dzogchen“, I have had people tell me this to my face.
And Quigong, as you may notice, is as much a mainstay at SMC as Buddhist teachings. Soon Psychotherapy as the Path to Liberation will be a mainstain. Particularly if it is financially successful. So do I think the dharma is in danger of being diluted and disappearing under this NewAge/Psycho/Buddhism?. I think it is the most dangerous time of all for the Dharma;
Dear Chris
Thanks for your reply on Spirit Rock – I suppose I mentioned Kornfield because he was the only person I could think of in connection to the vipassana centre idea for SMC that Ash brought up.
Interesting to hear your take on Spirit Rock –yes after I mentioned it on my post I did check out the website further and I saw too that they were also following some new age courses aswell.
And then I read Kornfields history of Theravada in the states which did mention western psychology also
So yes thats interesting a lot of the Buddhist main centres seem to be doing new age stuff more than they used to – perhaps its because people have more trouble cluing into the Buddhist teachings these days in the sense of understanding about dissatisfaction and impermanence. May be also its a question of how you put the essence of the Buddhist teachings over to people in a manner that captures their intelligence but doesn’t turn them off in this acquisitive age. I suppose that is question of skill in communication that some can do that like of course the Vidyadhara.
In relation to psychology generally I do have a respect for the profession in that they deal with people that most of us would run a mile from. But then again like any profession I dont think psychology can set itself as an arbiter of society totally which from my reading it has somewhat done in the present age. Foucault of course has written many books explaining that psychology and psychiatry has sometimes had a tendency to do this. Of course I am no academic just a general reader but I do know how to ask questions about things more now than I did in the past –so yes everyone pose more questions about everything if stuff is ruffling you the wrong way and dont take the Authorities line on everything. Chris yes also psychology is going to be involved more in dharma circles to a degree even with just the concept of discussing compassion that does seem to be happening (I have tended to have a more sociological viewpoint of society due to my background) so how would you keep the conversation going or indeed should there be more strict parameters to the discussion? So may be a re-evaluation is called for in relation to eastern religions and psychotherapy –perhaps you could have those conferences again that happened in Boulder between these two branches of disciplines.
So yes getting back to a modern rise of the New Age –yes it again seems to be coming more prevalent as in the sixties- maybe hints at some essential sociological change in society perhaps here I mean globalisation and a sense of insecurity and uncertainty that is present. Also here I suppose you could posit in regard to this the rise of the shambhala teachings which have that ‘ideal’ of creating a better society ahead – so yes one would have to be very tentative in going forward with the shambhala teachings because they could possibly turn into a panacea catch-all for the ills of society and not an exploration of oneself and ones interaction with others.
I think its a question myself with the shambhala teachings
of just getting the basics out there in relation to basic goodness –may be even not going as far as Warriors Assembly with the whole thing although even now if you are a member of another religion or none I still think you can do WA. So yes I am thinking if that people kind of marinate in just the basics things will begin to manifest from that –so yes to some degree the whole structure needs to be less formal. What would you suggest in regard to the Shambhala path? I know you are somewhat of more devoted follower of the Kagyu and Nyingmpa teachings but I would also like to hear your views on Shambhala terma aswell and of course the environments that the Shambhala teachings are propagated in –that would be an interesting post!
In addition I had a thought after reading Ash’s post re the vipassana centre idea –why does some one not just interview the Esposets – surely than we would discover more about what CTR envisaged for the place. You know as I post stuff on rfs and ask questions I seem to be ‘discovering’ all these other ideas that CTR had for different ways of supporting the teachings and thats one reason why I am still posting on here. So yes some one give those previous co-ordinators a ring! Yes perhaps you need a group forming on what CTR actually said about the place to people. So may be SI would take no notice of this group but at least you would have an historical record of what was said.
I myself though am not sure about big centres now –with Ash’s emphasis on the local perhaps that should be emphasised more –perhaps indeed you would be more financially viable as an organisation in that manner of having medium sized centres in the area where you live –yes it’s a chicken and egg situation at present. But in some respects too now I dont think you could sell SMC now that the stupa is there so may be more needs to be discovered about what the Vidyadhara said about the place to everyone. Perhaps the emphasis could be more focussed on other more conventional religions using the place may be it could become an ecumenical centre –there are many in the great Christian traditions that are exploring the meditation concepts perhaps there needs to be more invitations to them to use SMC besides the new age groups. Not that I am totally
against iconoclasts from the new age movement but you have to be very careful about interacting with the whole thing. I like Matthew Fox, the ex-Catholic minister, he has elements of new age in his teachings but of course he is also rooted in discipline aswell from the Catholic church –I know that to be the case from all ex-Catholics I have known –some how I dont think these people can be as foolish with religious and indeed secular concepts as many others I have known.
Well I think that is all for now –best from a sunny UK!
Best
Rita Ashworth
I’m moving from NYC, which seems near the saturation point for dharma right now, to Salt Lake City, which has some dharma centers, but not a lot of Tibetan stuff going on. Anyone here from around there? Any advice? I’m thinking about trying to start a Trungpa study group/meditation group.
So does this mean no one read this, no one has anything to offer, or that the only things people will respond to are the usual posts about SI?
Dear Jake, if you are willing to post your email address, I will write to you privately to tell you what is cooking outside of SI that might be of help in starting a Trungpa study/meditation group. Or ask Mark Szpakowski to send your address to me.
Cheers and good luck with your move,
Suzanne
The Shambhala Int member databases (there’s actually two of them) could be queried (if you’re a member) for people in Utah and Salt Lake City. I think the essential part of starting a group is to offer some sitting meditation periods, at least occasionally, in your own home or elsewhere. Chapter 2 of “Smile at Fear” has the definitive Chögyam Trungpa meditation instruction. Then pick a book (“Smile at Fear”, “Cutting Through”, “Shambhala the Sacred Path of the Warrior”, …) and do a reading/discussion course around it.
This topic – what are the essential practices, texts, and study topics for a Chögyam Trungpa sangha group – will be explored in an upcoming article here.
In a couple of years the Root Text Project will publish a 3-volume set of the topics covered by CTR in the Vajradhatu Seminaries (Hinayana, Mahayana, Vajrayana). This will be a deep resource for study and teaching.
- Mark
Dear Mark
Thanks for the above information re CTR’s texts and study topics. I am looking forward to the future article on this.
It also may be a good idea in the meantime to point out the details given in your post in perhaps a heading called educational resources for groups because as time goes on people might want to consult such a reference topic.
Is the Root Text project being produced by SI or independently of SI – I have not heard much about it -what about copyright here and will this project be online? Hope to hear more about this project.
Great article by Damcho – I am thinking about it before I reply.
Best
Rita Ashworth