What is “Our Future Fund”?

99 Responses to “What is “Our Future Fund”?”

1. rita ashworth on April 1st, 2010 7:01 am
   

   Dear Barbara
   Thank you for that complex article on the financial basis of SI.
   Myself I dont think the Ladrang model should be the pinnacle of government within the shambhala mandala. Its true a lot of Tibetan lamas base their governance on this model but Trungpa Rinpoche stated he wanted a more inclusive model for governance that is a National Assembly as mentioned in his will on the Chronicle project website where people would have a constitutional input by voting on how matters were decided upon.
   The budget for any organisation I believe should be decided by elected representatives who have some financial acumen so that they know what they are doing this would build up trust in governance and of course friendliness in general in a greater sangha. I also think this sangha should comprise of SMR students and others because we are all are in some way linked to Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche if not SMR.
   In some respects I think Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche dropped the Ladrang model because of his encounter with western forms of government. Although he was against some aspects of parliamentary democracy I believe with the deleg system he was trying to get some new form of democracy happening where people would in essence be more political than even in the present western context. So I find the deleg concept an almost political consciousness raising model and not merely a social club. So the base of the power structure was to be engagement of the delegs with the King in a somewhat democratic way because of the voting process.
   Voting process means to me voting on agreed aims discussed in great detail with members and it also means to me agreeing financial aims aswell. So the offerings to other teachers and organisations has to be up for debate they should not be made primarily on the say so of the King/Sakyong principle. This does open up a can of worms re the lineage dimension but Trungpa Rinpoche did not get things right all the time for example he admitted that he was teaching in the ‘wrong’ manner in the UK, so his teaching changed to suit his students in the US by his contact with them socially/politically. So yes indeed financial aims need to discussed widely because even great lamas need direct contact with their students in the governance process thats how they both learn about politics in its most widest sense. A lama can not remove herself/himself from the ‘political’ process –he/she has to be engaged in it in great detail. Even yogis have to know where their meals are coming from –food is politics and economics most directly!
   So yes I would say abandon the Ladrang model and lets get back to discussing about how SMR students, CTRs students and indeed any other people of a religious or secular persuasion can get these teachings into the world in a truly comprehensible and dare I say it a ‘democractic’ manner.
   Best
   Rita Ashworth
2. Lee Weingrad on April 1st, 2010 7:38 am
   

   Barbara,

   wow. Too bad you don’t live in Beijing. We could use that kind of prajna for Surmang Foundation. I myself have been going through an exercise with a corporate consultant to sort out our projects so that we can clearly articulate our needs and our activities. Our own efforts probably not unlike Shambhala’s have grown organically and at some point we have a back yard overgrown with wildflowers, as well as the food we so carefully planted. From what you have described, it seems that a big fence or barrier like the one Bush wanted to put between the US and Mexico, has been put around the finances and also in the process obfuscate the activities as well.

   For our own little sweetpea of an organization, I’ve always felt that if people could connect with and understand how we work and what we do, there would be more participation. I’m a long ways away, but from what you say, it doesn’t look like SI has the same game plan.

   Lee
3. Petra Mudie on April 1st, 2010 8:32 am
   

   It is good to be presented all these details: then we can ask questions about things we do not understand – and, with answers, learn something new. Regard Item 1, the year of retreat, I thought that a retreat was a time of withdrawing, scaling down and being in one place , like a cave or cabin, for a long time, contemplating alone, living simply and frugally on minimal expenses. The Sakyong’s Retreat seems to be more like a university Sabbatical, when one takes time off to do things one does not have time for normally, and one travels for personal enrichment, being supported by a slightly reduced but near normal teachers salary.It is justified by universities to prevent teacher burn-out and because the students subsequently benefit from the enrichment gained during the sabbatical study period. Perhaps some clarification of the nature of the Sakyong’s retreat would help us understand the need for such a a large budge – which is perhaps 2x more than that of a Professor on sabbatical.
4. Christine Baranay on April 1st, 2010 8:55 am
   

   It irked me a few years ago when a new article was posted to sangha-announce promoting Barbara’s opinion on the finances — and it irks me now.

   Who exactly is your audience? By promoting to sangha-announce it appears you wish to enlighten all those foolish enough to be giving to Shambhala International OR the the Ladrang.

   You imply that their is a great bait and switch game going on and that people who give to Shambhala International have been fleeced.

   It’s always been incredibly generous I feel for Shambhala International (who manages I believe the shambhala website with its various lists and member section) to continue to grant you the right to USE for FREE it’s mailing list to promote your continued displeasure with the Sakyong.

   Why not try to go it alone Barbara? — find another way to promote to the Shambhala Community at large. Spend some of your money to do so.

   And if you say that AS A MEMBER you are ENTITLED to write whatever you wise AND promote it to the membership — then please — resign your membership.

   That would be more honest. More genuine and yes — braver.

   Christine
5. Madeline Schreiber on April 1st, 2010 9:35 am
   

   I just posted this to s-talk and s-announce
   Madeline
   _________________________________

   http://radiofreeshambhala.org/2010/03/what-is-our-future-fund/

   Dear Sangha,
   ..
   Several weeks ago our community hosted the visit from Lodro Rinzler and Josh Silberstein. A purpose of the community meeting was to help clarify the many questions members have about the new financial structure of Shambhala. In one short meeting it was not possible to bring out all the issues and make a coherent picture of it all.

   Once again, Mrs. Blouin of Halifax has donated her time and done her best to dig into the available information, and to make a formulation of the areas which still need to be defined more clearly, and to raise the questions that still need answers.

   For those who are interested in staying tuned in to the changes to the finances of the organization, the link is provided above.

   Yours in sangha,
   Madeline
   Nova Scotia
   ——
6. Dale Hinchey on April 1st, 2010 11:25 am
   

   Dear Barbara and Everyone,

   The Kongma Sakyong has decided he wants to drive the car. Not surprising for a man who is about to become a father.Get in the back seat and enjoy the ride, watch carefully as he negotiates those hairpin curves and puts the greater vehicle through its paces. He is a power shifter. Double clutching? No problem.

   When he thinks we can drive this vehicle, I am sure he will inform us immediately. I think that he probably has better things to do but we must learn to drive yet again. He has a family to look after.

   I was wondering whether this greater vehicle was a Chevrolet, a Porche, or perhaps a Merercedes Benz like his da’ preferred. I have a feeling its more of a continually morphing vehicle to suit the terrain. LOL.Perhaps we can say, ” a hybrid?” Lubricated with bodhi.

   Y’all help with the gas money now y’ hear?

   Cheers and much love to everyone,

   Dale
7. Sylvie Stevenson on April 1st, 2010 12:29 pm
   

   Just for the record, there’s a small error in monthly figure Barbara gives in first paragraph under heading “Back to the text….” $673,000 divided by 12 to get monthly expense shold show as $56,083, no? The per diem figure correct based on dividing principal above by 365 days. (I did the math!)

   cheers,
   Sylvie
8. Suzanne Duarte on April 1st, 2010 1:46 pm
   

   Thank you, Barbara, for your patient digging and your prajna, which have revealed the unanswered questions. I hope the donors are paying attention. Thanks to Madeline for posting to sangha-talk and sangha-announce.
9. Zerme Drimed on April 1st, 2010 2:45 pm
   

   Thank you, Barbara, for your continuing bravery. The lines below raise a red flag:

   . . “This was his only response to the question.”

   . . . “Once again, Mr. Silberstein did not answer directly. ”

   . . . “This answer only deepened the confusion.”

   . . . “most of the explanations seemed only to create further confusion. ”

   There are simple questions here: When I give money to Shambhala, where does that money go? What funds exist? What are they called? How is money allocated among them? On what is the money spent?

   If people have come to your center specifically to explain the organization’s fundraising, and they cannot or will not answer these questions, I recommend walking briskly in the opposite direction. These people are trying to pull an elaborate handmade Tibetan rug over your eyes.

   I stopped making unrestricted gifts ten years ago. I give only restricted donations. I would recommend that anyone who finds the information in this article distrubing do likewise, at least until some clearly comprehensiblie explanations appear.

   I know that the “Sakyong Labrong” folks do not think that their donors have a right to this kind of explanation. Silberstein said quite clearly that the Labrang follows the Tibetan model of funding, where donors are too devoted to ask where their money goes, and the Lamas spend as they see fit. Perhaps they can support the Sakyong and Sakyong Wangmo on the contributions of Westerners willing to buy into this model. If they can’t do this, then they may need to acknowledge the intelligence of the culture in which, and on which, they live.

   Barbara drew this conclusion from her research:

   “. . .all donations to Shambhala International, other than restricted donations. . .go to the Sakyong Ladrang, which is now called Our Future Fund. And there is no oversight of the Ladrang because the only directors are the Sakyong and the Sakyong Wangmo.”

   If this is indeed the case, then Shambhalka International, the organization, will die on the vine. One would be very tempted to wonder if that is the idea. The Sakyong and Sakyong Wangmo get all the money, gain complete control of all of Trungpa Rinpoche’s teachings, and then allow the old organization to fade away? Somebody please tell me I’m wrong about this. This will involve giving me a much better explanation of the structure of financial support for all of the Shambhala mandala, not just for the Mukpo “household.”

   Zer-me
10. Chris on April 1st, 2010 2:45 pm
    

    Sorry for putting this on the Poetry Section , my apologies to the Poets.

    ■Chris on April 1st, 2010 1:47 pm

    I invite people to see the level of misunderstanding of “sangha”
    and “refuge in the sangha,” in the document linked below, and why this has become a cult under the leadership of SMR, the President, and others, who clearly have a distorted view of what taking refuge in the sangha is, and then mixing this distorted view of refuge in the sangha, with Shambhala governance. .

    This is why no one is questioning, or using their critical intelligence or speaking out, who are in the Sakyong’s mandala. They are the blind, taking refuge in the blind. These are people that feel, according to SMR’s view of “sangha” as expressed by RR, that they would be “abandoning sangha” if they don’t see their ordinary confused beings as enlightened at all times. This is confusing relative and absolute, confusing secular goverment with a skillful means of vajrayana Buddhism and is a tragic result of mixing Shambhala and Buddhism.

    Distorting the meaning of “taking refuge in the noble sangha” which means taking refuge in the actual “noble sangha” i.e. the lineage of those who have reached realization, and are worthy of refuge, has had devastating consequences. This misunderstanding of “taking refuge in the noble sangha ” with taking refuge in other confused beings with us on the path, was addressed by Gampopa, the The Jewel Ornament of Liberation, (which fortunately can’t be edited by Shambhala Corporation is explicit about saying WE DO NOT TAKE REFUGE in ordinary beings, because they have FEAR and confusion, like us, and this would be the blind leading the blind This, I believe, is one of the root confusions that got us in this mess. It is also another example of how terrible is this Shambhala Buddhism, which is mishmashing two ignorances of people with little understanding of the Dharma and little understanding of CTR’s terma of Shambhala.

    Here is the RR interpretation of sacred/secular governance:

    http://www.shambhala.org/community/govdocs/Secular_Sacred_Governance.pdf

    I invite you to read this sacred_/secular governance treatise by Richard Reoch, which
    conflates a misunderstanding of one of the three jewels of buddhism with a misunderstanding of the Shambhala sacred path of the warrior.

    This is clearly one of the reasons NO FEEDBACK ALLOWED and why these administrators give and get no feedback, and why ShambhalaBuddhism has slowly evolved into a seamless, impervious cult, from top to bottom.
11. Barbara Blouin on April 1st, 2010 5:41 pm
    

    Thank you, Sylvie Stevenson, for checking my math and finding my mistake. You are correct: ” $673,000 divided by 12 to get monthly expense should show as $56,083, no?” I will be in touch with the web master and see if he can correct the mistake in the text.

    Gratefully,

    Barbara
12. Jonah on April 1st, 2010 6:25 pm
    

    Did you know the Prime Minister of Canada earns just over $300,000 a year?

    My main concern with this is that the Sakyong not only has a high personal salary of $144,000 (just below what a cabinet minister earns) a year but then expenses of $264,000. This is about…

    $408,000 a year!

    Wow. That is a lot for a spiritual teacher and is kind of fishy. Is there oversight of how these funds are spent? Is it democratic? Are the expenses broken down and easily accessable?

    I imagine travel costs a lot of money for the Sakyong and I don’t think he’s fleecing members but all leaders must be accountable. Any donor has the right to know these things.

    I just started attending a local centre and am very new to Shambhala. I absolutely love it but I will withhold donations from anything but local centre stuff until I know what goes on higher up.
13. Rob Graffis on April 2nd, 2010 6:02 pm
    

    Not really related, but I saw this guy reading the Daily Camera (Boulder) next to me eating lunch, and saw the headline.
    This was in another publication.
    Thank goodness for the FBI.
    ____________

    Boulder: Naropa says $450,000 was embezzled from school
    Employee suspected of taking the money from the Buddhist-inspired school fired last week, school says
    Associated Press
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    BOULDER, Colo. — Naropa University says about $450,000 has been embezzled from the Buddhist-inspired school over the past two years.

    Naropa President Stuart Lord says an employee suspected of taking the money was fired last week. The employee’s name wasn’t released.

    Lord says the university is cooperating with law enforcement.

    He says the alleged embezzlement was discovered by an internal investigation launched after a tip from the FBI.

    An FBI spokesman declined to comment on whether the agency is investigating.

    Lord says two other employees were fired for allegedly failing to establish proper controls but that neither is suspected of wrongdoing.

    Naropa was founded in 1974. Its teachers have included poets Allen Ginsberg and Anne Waldman and composer John Cage.
14. Shelli Meyers on April 3rd, 2010 2:54 am
    

    I cannot say for sure whether or not the Sakyong Ladrang avails itself of this, but the Highland Building offers “virtual office” services. This means, in Highland’s case, that you pay a nominal fee each month ($300) to get a mailing address and it “Includes access to a private telephone and wireless Internet during normal business hours, and four hours of reserved private office or conference room use per month. Additional meeting space use is available for the hourly fees outlined above. ”

    Source: http://www.historichighland.com/services.html

    In other words, when you need to have a meeting or a presentable office environment, you can use or host people in “your” office or conference room, without the expense of renting space full-time. You couldn’t even rent a closet for $300 a month in Boulder.

    Like I said, I can’t be sure this is what the Sakyong Ladrang is definitely doing, but I’ve been going into that building once a month for 10 years, as my doctor’s office is on the second floor. If the Sakyong Ladrong had moved into one of the permanent units that I normally walk past (which admittedly does not include the 3rd floor), I definitely would have noticed. There is VERY little turnover in that building. I think the virtual office scenario is by far the most likely.

    I find it a little suspicious that the author spent enough time on Highland’s (brief, direct, and succinct) Web site to lift a photo and determine that it was “elegant and probably high-rent” and ignored the if not more-likely, than at least just-as-likely scenario – the virtual office – as it is quite prominently advertised at the top level of the Highland site as one of the building’s main services.

    I might be able to find out the next time I go in there, but part of the benefit of renting a virtual office is that when a visitor comes in and asks about the virtual renter, a receptionist tells the visitor that they are not in right now, would they like to leave a message, etc. Of course, there’s always the radical approach of JUST ASKING THEM (http://www.sakyongladrang.org/contact.html ), preferably next time as part of your “investigation”, before publicly casting aspersions on their real estate choices. Fact should be a key element of an “investigation”, should it not? Your worst fears may be right and the Sakyong Ladrang may be forking out $5000/month for an office in Highland. But merely implying that they do without fact-checking makes your “investigation” look like just that: a summary of your worst fears. It kinda makes me wonder what else presented in this article had other possible explanations that were not mentioned because they did not support the underlying premise; the tone of bias here was not even thinly disguised.

    I’m new here. So is this what Radio Free Shambhala is all about?
15. Barbara Blouin on April 3rd, 2010 8:20 am
    

    About the Historic Highland Building.

    Thanks, Shelli. You are right: I did not check out the building myself. It would have been a bit difficult, since I am in Nova Scotia. It never occurred to me that the Ladrang office is a virtual office, not a “real”office. Would you be willing to go to the building itself and see if the Ladrang (or a related name) is listed in the directory? Maybe even go there, and see what is there, or not.
    Then let Radio Free Shambhala know what you found.

    Barbara
16. Jake on April 3rd, 2010 10:05 am
    

    It sounds like restricted donations are a good idea, at least until things become clearer.

    My other concern is the amount of the Sakyong’s salary. I don’t begrudge a teacher a good salary; I don’t expect my teachers to live in poverty. At the same time, over 400,000 a year is astronomical. I hope no one responds by saying that this is not that gigantic, cost of living has gotten higher, etc. That’s just a lot of money.
17. Shelli Meyers on April 3rd, 2010 12:05 pm
    

    As I said, Barbara, you went to and obviously browsed the Highland Building’s Web site enough to form a(n) (accurate) conclusion as to its swankiness, and to copy and paste an outdoor photograph of it. It’s not too much of a leap to assume you might have browsed it thoroughly enough to see if the Sakyong Ladrang was listed as a tenant, is it? In the course of collecting even just that minimal amount of information, it would have been hard to not notice the only menu items – clearly marked along the top of each page (of which there are about 9 total): “Home”, “History”, “Executive Offices”, “Virtual Offices”, “City Club”, and “Residential”.

    You say the idea of a virtual office never occurred to you, but the information was right there in front of you and certainly did not require a trip to Boulder to read. I felt (and still feel) that a true “investigation” would have at least, well, investigated the information readily accessible at your fingertips before implying a conclusion – a conclusion obviously based on a different set of information from the very same Web site.

    The issue itself is certainly akin to dancing on the head of a pin in the grander scheme of things, but when the mass media does something like this, people call it cherry-picking. And it leads to suspicion of the completeness and fairness of the entire report. To these eyes – which came here for the reasons that I *thought* RFS was all about – your report more than just raised suspicion, it read as completely biased. And hey, biased is okay with me; I just was surprised (like I said, I obviously misinterpreted the purpose of this site). Cherry picking data, not so much.
    ______________

    And sorry for my convolutedness if I didn’t explain this clearly, but I meant to convey that I already know that building very well – I’ve been going there about every 12 weeks for the last 10 years. My physician is one of the few tenants – it looks like a big building, but it has gianormously high ceilings, and the floor plan is largely common area.) I will certainly check out the Sakyong Ladrang’s virtual- or non-virtual-ness to whatever degree I can the next time I am there, but as I am disabled (permanently) and severely ill (currently), I don’t get out of my house (or bed, for that matter) casually, or often, so an immediate impromptu visit isn’t really feasible. My next appointment is at the end of this month sometime; I will definitely report back on whatever I find.

    But I still don’t think it’s a terribly outrageous idea to just ask.
18. Michael on April 3rd, 2010 12:34 pm
    

    It’s Radio “Free” Shambhala, obviously not Radio “Fair and Objective” Shambhala.
19. damcho on April 3rd, 2010 2:16 pm
    

    Michael, does “objectivity” exist in Buddhism? Fairness of course we should always strive for. We won’t always succeed 100%. And I sincerely hope you don’t believe Shambhala power holders do? The difference here is that Barbara acknowledged Shelli’s point right away, within hours in fact. The experience of many of us with Shambhala is that our communications simply are ignored, the issue never–and I mean never–engaged with. So if “fairness” is the issue…
20. Chris on April 3rd, 2010 4:11 pm
    

    Who cares whether it’s virtual housing or not virtual housing ?

    If it is virtual, then they are pretending to clients that this is a physical address for which they are paying high-end rent, in order to ensure prospective donors that they are solvent and successful, and to trust them to send their money.

    If it is not virtual, and they are paying high-end rents, it is profligate and insensitive (since the rest of the mandala is so broken) and it is again a pretense, to ensure prospective donors that they are solvent and successful, and to trust them to send their money.

    Either way it is always about pretense and money, and that should be the concern.
21. Rob Graffis on April 3rd, 2010 6:17 pm
    

    I am not quite sure why Shelli is so angry. Also, I would appreciate it if Chris stops using fake names when she’s on the war path.

    What I think would be helpful is people get a better understanding on how Non For Profit groups work legally. If you give money to any non for profit organization, they can and do transfer funds to any other group under the same umbrella. I’m not saying funds are being transfered to the “Future” group, but if it is under the Shambhala umbrella, and a non for profit, it may do so. You need to specify on your donations and will where your money goes.
    From what I saw on the OUR FUTURE site is they said if you support the Sakyong’s activities, you will help spread basic goodness. It didn’t give very much other explanation.
22. Chris on April 3rd, 2010 7:26 pm
    

    yes Rob, glad you spotted that.

    I used “Chris” as an alias for Chris.

    How many people besides you, do you think I fooled?
23. El Herrero Viejo on April 4th, 2010 12:53 am
    

    Shelli…what…? So, you “call out” Barbara for not being the investigative reporter you’d like her to be, while you don’t even know yourself if the Sakyong La-whatever has a physical office in the same office building you’ve been visiting on a regular basis for 10 years? What’s up with that…? I mean…?
    Sorry, your “call out” just doesn’t compute. Meanwhile, Barbara’s reporting does.
    Cheerful April 4 to everyone!
24. rita ashworth on April 4th, 2010 5:44 am
    

    Yes re research for articles its difficult to check all the facts for posting especially if your doing the whole thing on your own I know that myself from doing stuff in Nova Scotia re articles on unemployment, homelessness and gay rights. But I still think Ms Blouin has done an admirable job in quoting the financial affairs of SI particularly in asking about the cost of the Sakyongs retreat which Ms Mudie has also raised a query about on this thread.
    Re financial transparency SI could be so literal as perhaps Hansard is with reporting what happens in the UK government and just for once publish everything for everyone to see on the SI website including also a comprehensive reason why they are not giving answers to certain questions on some financial matters that is an easy thing that they could do.
    Re also the visits to the cities by Rinzler and Silberstein which has caused some confusion as to financial matters just have one person to relate to people what is going on – a spokesperson as is used for relating to the conventional press.
    Myself though I think you will continually have these discussions about finance because of the Ladrang principle which is too much of a conventional Tibetan approach to governance to impose in a western context. Re the ruling of a religious/secular body maybe some investigation should be made of how other religious organisations manage their affairs in this regard I would should suggest studying the Church of England Synod which to my knowledge I have never read of any double dealing re financial matters. But perhaps also people could suggest organisations that they have known which they have dealt with which have shown good governance. So yes may be we should widen the debate to offer better ways that a religious or secular institution could be managed because even the breakaway groups would be interested in this aswell. Such a discussion would also make us clue into running an ‘enlightened society’ for the good of all.
    Best
    Rita Ashworth
25. Zer-me Dri'med on April 5th, 2010 8:16 pm
    

    Shelli: “But I still don’t think it’s a terribly outrageous idea to just ask.”

    When was the last time you asked anybody in “the Mandala” for information? Especially information about money or about the Sakyong’s activities? I’m sorry to hear you are so ill, maybe that means it has been a while since you have attempted the kind of communication you are urging on us. Please believe me, everyone even remotely associated with RFS has asked, early and often, and with all the politeness and circumspection Trungpa Rinpoche drilled into us. Any of us can tell you what would happen if you were to write to Joshua Silberstein and courteously ask him what sort of office the Ladrang had.
    *They just don’t answer.* That is how Shambhala, or the Sakyong Ladrang, or whoever they are now, operates. If anyone says anything that in any way threatens their construct of reality, they ignore it until it goes away. It is a very effective strategy in a Western Buddhist organization where everybody has throughly confused compassionate activity with being nice. It seems to be especially the case in relation to the Sakyong Ladrang, which has from day one made it clear to all that they do not have to tell anybody anything.
    As somebody pointed out to you, at least around here, when you raise an issue, somebody gets back to you within a few hours, and acknowledges mistakes. That should be a breath of fresh air.
26. Rob Graffis on April 5th, 2010 9:45 pm
    

    Here is what the Sakyong Ladrong site sells in a nut shell.
    It say’s nothing really. What does supporting the Sakyong Lineage mean exactly? Putting up new tangkas at the Shambhala Centers? That was what was mentioned on the “Our Future” website. Also, what does ensuring the transmission Of Shambhala Teachings mean in this case?:
    As far as communication goes with the hierarchy goes, it isn’t all that good.
    I remember when I was a kid, I wrote two letters to the late President Lyndon Johnson. One was how concerning how he treated his pet beagle. His secretary sent me a letter with a large photo of the President being very friendly with dogs. The other letter concerned the famous photo of a S. Vietnamese military guy executing a Viet Cong guerrilla in his head. His Secretary wrote back to me again on that one too concerning how we all want peace. The reason I bring this up is early last decade, I wrote three very respectful letters to the Sakyong, and never got any response from his office. At least the Regent’s and the Vidyadhara’s office would send some kind of response. Plus both of them did grant interviews or group audiences, though it would take a while.
    From what I know about Richard Reoch is he is a good listener and visionary, but doesn’t really present much information.
    You have to admit, the information mentioned concerning the Ladrang on their website is one of the most minimalistic plugs I have ever read concerning a tax deductible organization (Our Future). Please read the following..
    Rob
    _______________

    The Sakyong Ladrang is committed to the protection and support of the Sakyong lineage. The prosperity of the Sakyong Ladrang is essential to ensuring the continuity and transmission of the Shambhala teachings on basic goodness, the fundamental ground of enlightened society.
27. Chris on April 5th, 2010 10:48 pm
    

    Following up on Barbara Blouin’s attempt to get information on the Kalapa Group : she says:
    “When I asked for financial information from The Kalapa Group, I hit a wall. I asked Joshua Silberstein for a statement of revenue and expenses for the most recent fiscal year. His reply: “Unlike the Sakyong Foundation and Shambhala, where due to their structures they have a responsibility to publicly file information, the Kalapa Group is a privately held corporation. We reserve the right to not share these details.” This response makes it clear that the Kalapa Group is not only the least transparent of the three new entities, it is basically opaque. ”

    In an interview about the Labrang, with the Shambhala Times( another multimedia PR Website of Shambhala Inc) Josh Silberstein is introduced (quick bio) and answered about the Kalapa Group:

    “His work for the Sakyong started in 2002 when Mr. Silberstein held the leadership role of Rusung at Karme Choling. In 2004, he became the Attache for the Sakyong. When that job was finished in 2006, Mr. Silberstein stepped into his current role with The Kalapa Group. In August of 2008 he began his additional role as Secretary of the Kalapa Council”.

    Mr Silberstein explains the Kalapa Group: “The Kalapa Group is a currently somewhat dormant as a corporation. It is a for-profit entity. If the Sakyong writes books that do not really pertain to Shambhala, such as a running book, that would be a for-profit undertaking, and that money could be directed to the Kalapa Group”

    The Living Peace Event, with the Dalai Lama , was an event sponsored by The Kalapa Group in 2006. While many thought this was a “spiritual event” it was actually a multimedia event put on by the Kalapa Group who organized the “tour” under the direction of Mr. Silberstein.. How much did the Dalai Lama Event” make in profits, and donations? And where was the monies channeled? We don’t know. But we do know the Sakyong Foundation was one of the beneficiaries of the Dalai Lama tour managed by Kalapa Group according to the Sakyong Foundation itself.

    Mr. Silberstein says this is a dormant for-profit corporation ,but I wonder? Is this group managing such things as the new Official Site of the Sakyong on Youtube? The videos are now very slickly presented all in a row, SMR may not be meditation much, but he is making a lot of meditation videos.

    It appears that SMR’s close administrators of the inner mandala, are not so much practitioners, as they are finance experts, multimedia experts and event planners, “promoting the Sakyong” . They are the very closest to the inner “court” of the Sakyong, while ordinary student practitioners can’t even get an interview with him or receive a response to a heart-felt letter. Or they are members of the “Path of the Donor” who must take an oath to give large amounts of money to his projects.
    A great teacher’s inner mandala used to be composed of his closest disciplines that demonstrated realization; with SMR its those composed of event planners and mutimedia experts that can promote him.
28. Chris on April 6th, 2010 10:06 am
    

    So how will this play out?
    Well , you don’t need small centers anymore, you only need a few big centers for SMR’s mega events. Small centers just “drain” part of the membership dues with upkeep, rent, heat. Besides, small centers can also be renegade , people might actually think independently, harder to control.

    Every Sakyong student is taking “oaths” to the him now , with no personal contact , they only see him at large mega events, but all their “households” are connected with householder practices, practicing 10 minutes a day and paying dues directly to him and his projects; the Sakyong can just make videos, and occasionally have live events, and all these “media events” small or large can be organized by the Kalapa Group.
    His new students are also techno-media wise, and being “dilletante buddhists”, into Shambhala Buddhism and a little zen, a little yoga, health and new age thinking, they all have their own “teaching blogs” with their poetry, and “dharma comments” and these little blogs reach 100′s of other unsuspecting new and confused potential students that have heard of buddhism, and just want to practice a little too, because its “cool.” So these SMR students are unwittingly proselytising and “chumming the waters” for new potential dues paying members with these “blog hooks” attracting new students, who don’t know a real teacher from a poser, as long as they have the the robes and look like the Dalai lama.. Kool Huh?
    SMR will be able to take more and more “sabbatical retreats” like his current “retreat” , where he is accompanied by five or six devotees composed of his book writers, and corporate types to continually inspire his “terma.”and so he never has to be alone, not ever. Why, he may be able to be on a sabbatical retreat permanently, and just make video teachings in the future with just one road show teaching a year.
    Meanwhile, Karme Dzong and Marpa house go into bankruptcy, the Sakyong builds another house in San Francisco, near the new SF Dzong. This is handier for quick trips to Malyasia, Tawain, and other Asian countries, where most ” fund-raising lamas” are now setting their sights People in these countries culturally don’t really care about practices, so much as how many titles a lama has, and getting abishekas from them for their next lives. They are really into dana and merit, they come from a culture that doesn’t question things like we do, and they are used to giving lots and lots of money and don’t expect a personal experience with a lama, unless of course they are a rich benefactor.

    So the Kalapa Group is very important in this mandala of SMR. They would be what is really driving the energy and generating the monies now .
    This is not a 350 piece puzzle. This is a “puzzle” that a 4-6 year old could complete, if you just gather the pieces, and put them all together. The Kalapa Group , given how central it is in the Mandala of CTR, is now the driving force while remaining invisible and opaque to the majority of SMR students.
29. Chris on April 6th, 2010 10:43 am
    

    Correction:

    “The Kalapa Group, given how central it is in the Mandala of SMR , is now the driving force, while remaining invisible and opaque to the majority of SMR students”.

    So Landrang? Kalapa Group? Kalapa Council? Sayong Foundation?

    These are not separate entities, with a check and balance function and feedback to each other, operating in a healthy way, this is an inner circle of the same corporate mentality and the same people with only one focus: to promote the Sakyong. They are his handlers, managers, media experts, financial and investment advisors, and public relations event planners.

    And the Ladrang? This is 11th century medieval feudal corporate/capitalism uniting with 21st c. corporate capitalism. The beginnings of capitalism meets the fruition of capitalism. This is quite a vision, don’t you think? To thrust upon the unsuspecting world of suffering human beings? Spiritual Materialism like we have never imagined before. And created on the backs of CTR and his students.
30. Petra Mudie on April 6th, 2010 11:18 am
    

    Chris, you have made it clear that you have very strong opinions about the nature of the Ladrang and other boards concerned with finances within the Shambhala mandala. Your opinions are great and highly entertaining. However, it is not so clear to me that your opinions are based on facts: they seem to be based on your perceptions. This makes them an interesting mirror of your mind, but I would suggest that you please present them as perceptions or ramblings of your mind, rather than knowledge of what is really happening within the Shambhla organisation. This would also allow new RFS readers to sort the facts from fiction.
    In my experience, when strongly negative thoughts dominate my mind, it is time to drop the issue for a while and then take another look a few months later. You will be surprised at how differently you may see the same situation then! Indeed, everything changes all the time and getting stuck is neither healthy for yourself nor helpful to others.
31. Chris on April 6th, 2010 11:44 am
    

    Everything that I expressed in these posts was information I found from quotes by Mr. Silberstein, on Shambhala Times , or information on the Sakyong Foundation or Mipham Foundation or vague responses to Ms. Blouin when she asked about the Kalapa Group.

    The Dalai Lama “event” was one of the tours the Kalapa Group and Mr. Silberstein takes credit for and the Sakyong Foundation was “a beneficiary” of this event according to their own publicity.

    If a group is opaque, and yet central to the workings of the mandala, it behooves us to use our critical intelligence and ask questions.

    If you simply google “Josh Silberstein and Kalapa Group” you will be connected to the same links I was linked to.

    For example: On the Mipham site is this blurb:

    The Kalapa Group
    Joshua D. Silberstein – President
    josh@sakyong.com
    Represents high profile ventures of the Sakyong including publishing, media and speaking engagements that help to support the Sakyong’s charitable activities.

    I don’t expect SMR students to do this kind of digging, or have any interest in using their critical intelligence about what has happened in this mandala.

    The Kalapa Group is a “for profit” corporation. It is central to SMR’s mandala. It is an events and media planner of “high profile ventures of the Sakyong”. Is this what you would want in the most central part of the mandala driving the mandala? Is this spiritual materialism? I conclude it is the most gross form of spiritual materialism, with only one purpose: to promote the Sakyong. Those are albeit my conclusions, but the material and information I garnered my conclusions from is information from SMR’s own webpages or quotes from his own media handlers. When your goal is to be” high profile”, than the price you pay is that people do start using their intelligence and start asking questions. That’s Buddhsim 101, by the way.Something not taught or encouraged in SMR’s mandala, for a good reason.
32. Petra Mudie on April 6th, 2010 12:05 pm
    

    Chris – this is your most interesting perception to date:
    “I don’t expect SMR students to do this kind of digging, or have any interest in using their critical intelligence about what has happened in this mandala”.
    Given the topic of discussion “Our Future Fund”, why would you not expect Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche’s students to be interested in digging for facts or using prajna when examining that mandala? After all, Our Future would be of foremost concern. I am puzzled by these negative expectations of yours – perhaps you could explain why you think the Sakyong’s students are unwilling to dig or use critical intelligence when we are indeed encouraged to do this from the start to the end. I could make up some answers for you, but they would just be my own perceptions, projections and personal interpretations, so it would be good to know what you really have in mind. After all, there is some wisdom in every thought.
33. Chris on April 6th, 2010 12:46 pm
    

    Dear Petrie:
    I don’t expect them to do this kind of digging, because they are not encouraged to question anything in his mandala. Quite the contrary, the goal is harmony at all costs as one of SMR students. You just have to read the “edicts” on Harmony, and view of Sangha, and Householder practices, and Oaths of the Patrons, and on and on. If you question things, you might find out things that are not pleasant to one’s cozy view . It might poke a hole in that “view,” you might pull the curtain back and see things that would contradict the “view” that you are part of being that is being perpetuated. In the Sakyong’s mandala , you might start thinking independently at the cost of “belonging ” to be “part of something bigger” which is just group ego, by the way.
    CTR’s transmission however, was to question everything, to use your intelligence , and to watch out for spiritual materialism in every form who would come to shear us like sheep, with an overlay of psuedo-mayahana ,to keep us compliant. Why do you think CTR took off the robes? Because he knew that the genuine dharma would not be transmitted in the West through this form and it was people’s slavish devotion to this form “unquestioningly” that contributed to the corruption of the dharma, & that spiraled into spiritual materialism in Tibet and was their undoing. . What does the Sakyong do? He puts on the robes, using this same form that his father “discarded” in order to present the Dharma “without credentials”. He uses it as a credential ( he has never done a three-year retreat, so why is he wearing the robes?) and he says that he is expanding on his father’s view of Shambhala, while becoming more and more like a Gelupa God/King to keep the masses subservient and sending the money. He even creates a landrang, an 11 century corporate, feudal structure , to garner more monies for himself and his projects with a Kalapa Group , a for-profit , central group hidden , yes hidden, in the mandala , as a multi-media management team to ensure that this “thing of his” gets bigger and bigger.
    You don’t have to have a negative view to see this, you just have to take the blinders off, and be willing to use your critical intelligence and wipe away the cobwebs to see clearly what has been happening over the last decade or so, i.e. an attempt to make people ignorant and unquestioning about these things. This is what spiritual materialists always do. Get the group to completely conform to your “view” and they will become blinded and unquestioning and they will keep sending the checks. It’s just theme and variation of Old Tibet , and the serfs and slaves carrying all that barley and grain on their backs up the Potala Palace stairs to keep the ruling order in power. You use the mahayana teachings to make people believe it is for “gaining merit. A corruption of dana to benefit the corporation. It is what CTR was warning us always about i.e. Spiritual Materialism, and keeping samaya with him is “speaking out about it, shouting it from the rooftops”. Saying NO NO NO NO NO.

    Hope that answers your question.
34. Petra Mudie on April 6th, 2010 2:30 pm
    

    Thank you for your thoughts, Chris. By the way, my name is Petra, not Petrie….but of course, a rose by any other name…!! Strange that I see things a totally different way from you. I have studied Buddhist and Shambhala Buddhist paths with Sakyong Mipham for 16 years and it has never occurred to me that I could not ask any questions that were on my mind. You are correct that harmony is a goal – why not? If we cannot sort out our disagreements as a Sangha, is it likely that we can help other societies? I agree with you that examining our personal behaviour is often painful – but it could be a big step towards exposing our own neuroses – the ones we hate to see and often criticise harshly in others. It is also strange to me that you find CTR’s transmission was to question everything, use your intelligence , and watch out for spiritual materialism – yet you do not see this in Sakyong Mipham’s transmissions. Personally, I question everything and find there is always some wisdom at the base of seemingly strange or outrageous things. Personally, I also like the robes: it is great we have choices of teachers and it reminds me that not everyone is North American – and that is OK. It is also good to be pushed to see things through the eyes of another culture: it wakes me up!
    Thanks for the discussion: I have no more to say at this time.
35. rita ashworth on April 6th, 2010 4:43 pm
    

    Yes the whole thing is very difficult in raising funds for religious organisations. Money/dharma there is always debate about them together.
    I think Chris has raised some interesting questions about the Kalapa Group perhaps with the Rinzler/Silberstein tour people could get some really definitive answers about this group by asking them about it or possibly email Mr Silberstein aswell and try and get some information out on this group –maybe a vigorous asking about this group will reveal more about it –so thats what I encourage people to do.
    Re SMR’s students asking critical questions of the organisation I would not know about that but perhaps people could start formulating critical points to put to the Sakyong in a public forum –that would be a good way to go about it.
    Myself I know SB is not for me because I have been examining all the ‘concepts’ around it for the last year re this site, reading Trungpas books and emailing people so yeh I am a ‘mover-oner’ –the mover –oner movement is gathering speed though, I think- though yes may be will check out some arts progs still. I dont know may be the breakaway groups could have some tentative relationship with SI in the future that is still a slim possibility.
    Well yes I digress maybe another way to find out about stuff would be for the delegs to be asked by the delegpa if they want to know more about the financial status of all these organisations that are coming into being in SI and then these questions could be written down and sent to Mr Silberstein that would also be a good way of going about things in a political fashion somewhat.
    So yes I think I have raised some ways that people could investigate the financial bases of SI a bit more.
    The robes not robes debate personally I am not robes person but then again may be thats a class thingie for me because robes in the UK always seem to act as a delineation of power over others here. Yes check out Peter Cook on utube acting as a UK judge at Amnestys Charity ball –hilarious the judges incredible superiority to your ordinary bod.
    Well best
    Rita Ashworth
36. rita ashworth on April 10th, 2010 4:39 am
    

    At the risk of talking to myself on this site as people seem to be recovering still from the Easter break I would like to raise some more instances of the governing of Shambhala as even the breakaway groups have an interest in what happens in Nova Scotia aswell. As I am proverbially resting at the present time –ie without work-I having been scanning stuff on the web as you do so Barbara yes I am again wondering about finance and governance as you are.
    I have some queries about the Kalapa Centre Group for the new proposed centre in Halifax. Firstly it is this group according to Yeshe Fuchs in the Banner that has given a generous donation to the stabilising of the centre in Halifax – I wonder who gave the money purely I wonder about this because people should be made aware that if they give money to this KCG it seems that they will give it to who they see fit. I have noticed that this kind of thing happens a lot in SI – a centre here or a centre there will bail out another place which is having problems with debt. Myself I think in any organisation financially you have to have somewhat of a cohesive plan as to how you going to structure the way the budget is run-so yes people could ask questions about financial planning of SI in this respect.
    I also wanted to raise some queries as to the proposed Kalapa Centre in Halifax. At the moment I think a somewhat PR job is being done on it and I would like to suggest that a thread could start on rfs about this proposed institution/cultural centre. Myself I have some questions about it – to me the discussion about it should be totally interactive because even the breakaway groups may want to relate to it in some fashion in the future. I think the conceptions of it that seem to be arising already is that it might be a seat of government actually no it could not be a seat of government because CTR said that the capital of Shambhala would have to be in Sydney in the poem that Ash printed on this site. Maybe a KC would be the kickstart needed to begin the Shambhala enlightened society proper in the Cape Breton region. So I think you have to think long term about where you are going to put your seat of government. On a purely practical level that would create a lot of problems to have the government in Sydney but then there seems to be the vision of CTR’s poem aswell which everyone has to consider. So yes have a cultural centre in Halifax but the government in my opinion no way otherwise to me you are just propping up an already economically divided region even more.
    Who knows what was going on in CTR’s mind when he proposed that Sydney should be the capital of Shambhala perhaps he was seeing something that could be that we are only just glimpsing ourselves somewhat.
    Well best
    Rita Ashworth
37. Chris on April 12th, 2010 2:47 pm
    

    The Practice Lineage or Remembering Who We Are:

    Or: “Not letting the moralists get you down”:

    “Everyone in the lineage of the practicing tradition has been extremely sarcastic and critical of the current scenes taking place around them. They were extremely critical of the subtle corruption taking place in the name of the dharma. We could say that the Practice Lineage is the guardian of the buddhadharma not only in Tibet alone, but in the rest of the world. Someone should at least have a critical view of how things should happen, how things shouldn’t happen. That particular sharp-vision, traditionally known as “prajna-vision” is very important, and that is a very lively situation, a living situation, in fact, that is why we are here.

    The Practice Lineage is the most pure and is unhampered by any kind of spiritual materialism”.

    From “The Mishap Lineage: Transforming Confusion into Wisdom” by Chogyam Trungpa
38. Rob Graffis on April 12th, 2010 8:37 pm
    

    I wonder how many practice on RFS?
39. Will on April 21st, 2010 11:54 am
    

    Hi Barbara,

    I wanted to bring your attention to a slight error in your numbers.

    You said: “The total amount paid to these 41 staff was $247,242, or an average of about $6,000 per staff member.”

    Though, if you read the 2008 return you linked to you will notice that the $247,242 you reference is actually the total sum paid to the 15 “part-time or part-year employees in the fiscal period”. This gives an average of $16,482.80 per part-time employee, not $6,000 per staff member.

    Also, we should be aware that “part-time or part-year employees” is a pretty vague definition. For all we know this includes only a few regular part-time employees and the vast majority are people doing very short contracts. “Averages” paint a very general picture in a category such as this (with the possibility of lots of “outliers” in the data) and can often obscure the truth.

    Please be clear, I am not making on comment on whether or not Shambhala employees are over or under-paid.
40. Barbara Blouin on April 21st, 2010 6:59 pm
    

    Hi Will,

    You are correct: I made an error in my calculations of salaries for Shambhala International staff. This will take a little time to sort out. For now, I will delete the mistaken information and indicate that a more accurate statement will be made (by me) as soon as possible.

    Thank you for catching this.
41. Ash on April 21st, 2010 11:27 pm
    

    Thanks again for all your diligence in working through this, Barbara.

    This is just a small niggle, perhaps, but even assuming the Highland Office is indeed virtual, I can’t help wondering why he/they/we should need such a service. At the least, some sort of explanation – from those involved – would be helpful.

    Playing devil’s advocate on this: if you were trying to build something that could expand from around ten thousand to several hundred thousand, you might want to put together a separate kitty able to launch a sustained, targeted initiative. Just a thought. Even so, as many here have remarked, the explanation for the new organizations is surprisingly minimal.

    Personally, I stopped trying to keep up some time ago because unless one is actively involved it’s all just words when divorced from experience. But I guess it’s good that you are staying on top of it all – or at least trying to.
42. Barbara Blouin on May 6th, 2010 5:40 pm
    

    I just received an e-mail from the web master for Shambhala International, asking for donations for the Sakyong’s retreat — in other words, part of the Our Future Fund.

    Here is part of the text:

    “Dear Barbara,
    We are writing to you, and to each and every member of Shambhala, to invite you to make a personal contribution and further connection to the Sakyong during this period of his retreat.

    The Sakyong, Jamgön Mipham Rinpoche … is now at Rigon Tashi Choeling monastery in Pharping, Nepal. It was in the caves of this mountain valley, just outside Kathmandu, that Padmasambhava and his consort Shakyadevi meditated. The rocks surrounding the caves are believed to manifest an extraordinary phenomenon called “rangjung”, in which sacred forms arise spontaneously from the living rock due to the intensity of spiritual energy that pervades the area.
    The Sakyong has been in Pharping since early April and has spent much of the time in secluded retreat. He has now entered the Gesar Drupchen phase of his practice.

    It is traditional to make a personal offering towards such a retreat, both as a way of sustaining the overall costs of the retreat and also as a way of deepening our personal connection with the lineage holder, who is for many of us our root guru.”

    What this fundraising letter does NOT say is the RIGON TASHI CHOELING IS ONE OF NAMKHA DRIMED’S MONASTERIES. I hope everyone reading this knows that Namkha Drimed is the Sakyong’s father-in-law.

    This letter actually answers one of my questions about where the money to be raised to make offerings will be spent. Now we have an answer.
    For me, it is no surprise.
43. Zerme Drimed on May 6th, 2010 7:00 pm
    

    I suppose everybody has seen Connie Brock’s defense of the Our Future Fund in the Shambhala Times. She flatly denies what has been said here, that all contributions made to Shambhala are now going to the Ladrang. She claims that nothing has changed about how donations are handled, *except*,

    “US one time donations made to the Our Future campaign are being processed by the Ladrang Office, and go to an account set up specifically for this purpose. This account is jointly managed by Shambhala and the Ladrang. This is part of the joint effort between Shambhala and the Ladrang.”

    Questions about this:

    In a pie chart of the total amount of money donated to Shambhala and the Sakyong Ladrang, how big a slice would “US one time donations” be? Can you give me a percentage, maybe from last year?

    Are Shambhala Day gifts from the US counted as one-time donations?

    If the Ladrang is involved, does that mean that donors can have no expectation of receiving an accounting of how the money was spent? Does it mean that the rest of us can have no expectation of knowing how much money has come in and where it was spent? We have already been told that the Ladrang is privately-held and does not have to tell us anything unless they want to.

    Answers to these questions would make a difference in terms of whether Connie is clearling the atmosphere or blowing more smoke.
44. Barbara Blouin on May 7th, 2010 6:13 am
    

    Zermed,

    Thank you for raising these questions. I encourage you to ask Connie Brock directly. She gave her e-mail address — conniebrockmn@yahoo.com — at the bottom of the internet link following the short SNS announcement. And I encourage all you eager readers to do the same.
45. Barbara Blouin on May 7th, 2010 6:18 am
    

    Good work, Zermed. I hadn’t looked at Connie Brock’s article before I posted the last comment to you. You already posted your questions there!
    Thanks!
46. Petra Mudie on May 7th, 2010 10:01 am
    

    Barbara Blouin, thank you so much for the interesting information you posted about the Sakyong’s retreat in a cave near the Rigon Tashi Choeling monastery in Pharping, Nepal, which happens to be near one of H.E. Namka Drimed’s monasteries. It is nice to know that the retreat space is located within the mandala of the Mukpo-Ripa family lineage: something magic is likely eminate from that auspicious mileu, along the line of the magic that emanated from the Tagtsang Cave in Bhutan. You may know that Tagtsang Cave is part of a Nyigma monastery presently headed by Karma Thupden Chokyi Nyenci. There, in 1968, the Vidyadhara was a guest of the King of Bhutan. I wonder if you know how much money was contributed to the Nygma monastery? Many would say that the outcome of that reatreat – the Sadhana of Mahamudra – is priceless.
47. John Tischer on May 7th, 2010 5:14 pm
    

    Pray for magic but send money…right…….how pathetic.

    I supplicate the protector Vajrapani.
48. Tara Tears on May 10th, 2010 4:43 pm
    

    What this fundraising letter does NOT say is the RIGON TASHI CHOELING IS ONE OF NAMKHA DRIMED’S MONASTERIES. I hope everyone reading this knows that Namkha Drimed is the Sakyong’s father-in-law.
    ——————————–

    One can only wonder how much of this financial shell game is being orchestrated by the Sakyong’s father-in-law, who has benefited greatly from the Tibetan feudal system. Has he established the Ladrang in order to secure riches for the blended family? Has SI been taken over by a faction that has absolutely no alliegance to the teachings of CTR?
49. Zerme Drimed on May 10th, 2010 6:35 pm
    

    I don’t entirely understand people’s concern about Namkha Dri’med Rinpoche’s involvement in Shambhala. It looks to me like his establishment was quite prosperous on its own before the Sakyong and Sakyong Wangmo met. They don’t need a bunch of contentious westerners spoiling their soup. If someone has time to explain your concerns, and how they relate to the Our Future question, I’d be interested to read about it.

    It doesn’t seem to me like we have to go all the way to Pharping to find out that Shambhala has been taken over by a faction. That happened in Halifax sometime in the 1990s. My sense is that what has gone on since then is like the old description of God “grinding slow but exceedingly fine.” The Sakyong Ladrang takeover of tTrungpa Rinpoche’s legacy is the outcome of a process that has been playing out for a long time, along with the slow development of enough new teachers (i.e.acharyas and now the new “shastris”) that the organization can divest itself of its inconvenient elders.
50. rita ashworth on May 11th, 2010 2:54 am
    

    Yes I agree the new shastris whoever they are could just be come yes men and women because of the loyalty aspect.

    To me you need debate about the appointment of people to positions at least. Did not this happen in Halifax sometime in the 1990s when some leaders were selected after they had had an audience with the Halifax sangha – I think I remember reading about this.

    In addition the whole conception of appointing people to positions needs to be gone into more fully. Ash, James, and I are having a discussion about the triad concept ie monarchy, democracy and communism on our sunshine cafe table and it seems to me the democracy aspect of this triad has been somewhat usurped with the creation of this new line of teachers.

    Of course CTR did appoint people to positions before in Vajradhatu without using the democracy element but I think nowadays with the discussions about interpreting the shambhala teachings in the sangha the administration would have been wise to consult the sangha in more depth. And I have an intuition that this is the way CTR would have done things in the future aswell because of his mention of the national assembly with voting powers in his will which people can read on the Chronicle Project website.

    Myself in any other organisation that I will be involved with in the future I would like the interviewing process for religious and secular positions to be as public as possible to avoid charges of favouritism and patronage.

    Well best

    Rita Ashworth
51. Zerme Drimed on May 11th, 2010 12:44 pm
    

    Just from the journalistic work that Barbara has done on Shambhala’s finances in the last year, and especially considering the actions so far of the Sakyong Ladrang, I would not hold my breath waiting for any kind of democratic process in Shambhala. And, to be fair, that has always been the case.

    In my connections with Buddhist institutions, my main requirement is transparency, or maybe just translucency, in the financial realm. Before anybody gets my money, I am going to have to see where it goes and what it does. Money is the only voice anyone has in Shambhala. (To be fair, again, that is also true in every other Buddhist organization I know about.) I think Barbara has grabbed the right end of the stick in trying to sort out how the money talks and where it walks.
52. John Tischer on May 18th, 2010 11:30 am
    

    Paper Tyrant

    The Emperor has no clothes
    no power
    no authority
    just a myth of Kingdom
    with lots of money
    to put on a good show.
    How absurd and pathetic…
    what a tragedy that in my
    lifetime I would see such a thing.
53. Chris on May 20th, 2010 11:22 am
    

    I know longer think of this as a tragedy John.
    Although sometimes it has been overwhelmingly depressing, it is starting to feel like a great blessing.

    What an amazing teaching on spiritual materialism! It wouldn’t have had the impact if it hadn’t been so close to home. Because it has been so vivid, it is not something we will forget, maybe not for lifetimes.

    It has incorporated the spiritual materialism of both East and West and shows that neither has a monopoly on it.

    I believe that SI and the Paper Emperor will have brought down the corruption of it all . That will be the real legacy of SI. So they have performed a great service, just not the one they think they are performing.

    So this is cause for cheering up. If it hadn’t gotten so absurd, we might have ignored it for more generations. And then it would have dug in more deeply.

    It is our cosmic joke; If we are lucky , everyone gets one in their lifetime. I think this one is ours.
54. Rita Ashworth on May 20th, 2010 1:25 pm
    

    Dear Chris

    Yes sadly to some degree I think I follow your thinking too.

    I think we have not explored our own culture for the richness of the shambhalian teachings too well. For example I read on the Project that the Foreign Dralas were calling CTR -so if they were callng him -why are these dralas not expressed in the Art that should be coming out of SI. To a certain extent the forms that SI are developing are still entwined with the East and I believe we should be cluing into our own forms -not because they are any better but just because they are there!

    We have not given ourselves too much time to get the whole thing together and zooooommmmm we are off to the East yet again…..I dont know may be its a question of not trusting what we have really experienced. Me going back to my roots….that would be a way of reconnecting -know its dicey but think it could work to a certain extent.

    Cosmic joke-myself dont think anything is sacred -everything up for grabs now -the things is one should just launch oneself into new things that could be a way forward.

    Well best

    Rita Ashworth
55. John Tischer on May 21st, 2010 11:33 am
    

    Chris

    I agree that there is a silver lining to the cloud, and I can only thank the protectors for that, that there are enough students out there that haven’t
    lost their minds and critical intelligence to be seduced by a pot of gold at the end of the illusory rainbow…..which is the only result of ANY teacher
    promising ANYTHING to their students ….even if it sounds as good as SS seems to. In Shambhala Training, the end is presented at the beginning….
    basic goodness….that’s it folks! Which, as the Vidyadhara might have said, says a little but means a lot. That IS the magic of Shambhala Training, and there is no other. What’s going on is just marketing.
56. Barbara Blouin on June 15th, 2010 11:09 am
    

    Today an e-mail came from a Halifax realtor, urging sangha to spend $1.5 million to buy land adjacent to the Kalapa Court. I don’t think this needs any comment, but it appears to be a new development in the overall fundraising strategy.

    A question: How did a realtor gain access to sangha-announce?

    Here is the text:

    From: Mike Smith
    Date: June 14, 2010 5:37:39 PM ADT
    To: nova-scotia-announce@shambhala.org
    Subject: Sakyong’s Neighbors House is for Sale on the Peninsula

    Hello,

    I wanted to bring to everyone’s attention that the house, or should we say estate, right next door the Sakyong’s is for sale! Some of his other neighbors, who are Sangha members, have expressed concern that we find a Sangha member to own the property. The estate is listed for $1,599,000 CDN dollars, but I’m sure we could negotiate the price somewhat.

    If you are interested in placing an offer on this property please call me immediately, My contact information is below.

    Here is a link for the details of the property as posted by Waylon:
    http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/06/tip-in-halifax-house-next-door-to-sakyong-mipham-rinpoche-is/

    Yours In the Vision,
    Mike

    Mike Smith, REALTOR®: | T: 902.209.6745 | F: 866.472.0614 | E: mike@iListinHD.com|W: http://www.iListinHD.com

    Oh by the way, I am never too busy for your referrals!
    Follow Me LinkedinFacebookTwitterBlog RSS
    Halifax, Nova Scotia Real Estate Blog Oh, the Nova Scotia Cottage Lifestyle!
57. Barbara Blouin on June 15th, 2010 11:10 am
    

    correction: This was sent to nova-scotia-announce, not sangha announce.

    Barbara
58. Barbara Blouin on June 15th, 2010 11:15 am
    

    correction # 2

    I just looked at the member list for the Halifax Shambhala Centre. Mike Smith is a member.

    Sorry for my haste.

    However, there is an issue here: Although he has a right to post his information, Mr. Smith stands to make a big commission from handling the sale of this property, IF it happens.
59. Rob Graffis on June 19th, 2010 11:01 pm
    

    I don’t want to cause a riot, but for those of whogot the following messageon sangha announce, it did make me scratch my head.

    Does anyone know where to purchase clothing from the Sakyong Wangmo’s family clothing line?

    Many thanks.

    In the vision of the Great Eastern Sun,

    Sarah

    Sarah Anderson

    Staffing Coordinator, Human Resources

    Shambhala Mountain Center

    4921 County Rd. 68C

    Red Feather Lakes, CO 80545

    phone: (970) 881-2184 ext. 237

    fax: (970) 881-2909

    employment@shambhalamountain.org

    ___

    I did actually did see at one time on sakyong.com about this. The money was to go to Surmong. I think it was dated in 2004.
    I certainly never saw the clothing advertised or sold in our sangha’s book stores.
60. Rob Graffis on September 8th, 2010 12:27 pm
    

    Is Neal still part of the “Our Future Fund”?
    __________

    Boulder Daily Camera: SEC files fraud charges against Boulder investment adviser
    …
    From:
    “longchen@rocketmail.com” [Chat now]
    …
    View Contact
    To: gyurmesopa@yahoo.com
    This article link was mailed to you by: longchen@rocketmail.com *
    The sender included the following message:

    Hey Rob,The Feds are after Neal Greenberg. Just think, if you had invested with him, you’d still be filthy rich!Richard

    SEC files fraud charges against Boulder investment adviser – By Alicia Wallace, Camera Business Writer

    The Securities and Exchange Commission filed fraud charges Tuesday against Neal R. Greenberg, a Boulder-based investment adviser whose Agile Group shuttered last year in the wake of Ponzi scheme allegations. View Full Story

    Most E-Mailed
61. Chris on September 8th, 2010 1:52 pm
    

    Neal is now “teaching Shambhala Levels” in SI , as though nothing happened. Since the whole administration is about money, that shouldn’t surprise people. SI always rewards the liars, and cheats, and punishes those that speak out about it.

    The worst part of it is, that the Cult of Shambhala added to people mistakenly believing this was a “safe fund” , many were SI members who were directly and indirectly influenced to invest with Neal Greenberg because Shambhala had invested with him. Another example of how being in an abusive cult can harm you.

    When I saw that he was “back in the fold” as though nothing had happened I knew this CULT would have to implode from within.
62. Chris on September 8th, 2010 3:24 pm
    

    Here is Neal: Describing a ”
    Cheerful Shambhala Household in May 2010 His byline describes him as a senior student of Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche, a senior teacher, Kusung Officer, and attaché for the Druk Sakyong, involved with the Sangha since 1973.

    http://shambhalatimes.org/2010/05/25/a-cheerful-shambhala-household/

    Here is Neal “offering an Insightful Discussion on the Earthquake ” in April of 2010

    http://shambhalatimes.org/2010/04/19/placing-the-earthquake-in-our-lineage/

    Here is Neal’s letter in March of 2010 on the Ellen Mains thread on Chronicles endorsing the Sakyong and mentioning how he had taught a Shambhala level :

    Neal Greenberg
    “I love that question, especially given what I said about Shambhala and Buddhism. It seems that a Christian, HIndu, Shinto or Taoist can all be Shambhalian. I think it boils down to this: can a Christian experience open heartedness, compassion, kindness, bravery, basic goodness and wisdom, traits uncovered by the practice of meditation? It’s hard to think that a Chistian could not practice those traits. YESTERDAY, I TAUGHT SHAMBHALA TRAINING and it included several Christians who were every bit as engaged as any Buddhist. If we practice caring about others as our main motivation, I think great things will happen. We are, after all, human beings.

    As Vajra Dog said, it’s nice to see positive comments about the Sakyong. Thanks Nick for a sentiment so many of us share who love the Sakyong. He is a great and virtuous leader. As his father said, “who wouldn’t follow him?”. It’s hard to imagine anyone better to lead the lineage of Shambhala. Thanks for that post”.
    Neal Greenberg post
    March 14, 2010

    Having Neal Greenberg endorse you as a “Great and Virtuous Leader” would make anyone pause, except, of course, those still in a cult.

    Greenberg is still listed as an Associate Member of the Shambhala Trust as of today.

    http://www.shambhalatrust.org/member_lists.php
63. Barbara Blouin on September 8th, 2010 5:54 pm
    

    Re Neal Greenberg,

    Rob, to answer (really, not to answer …) your question: “Is Neal still part of the “Our Future Fund”?” I have no idea. I have not been following the Future Fund saga since I wrote the article back on March 31. The financial activities of Shambhala International are, as far as I know, immensely complicated and confusing to the uninformed, such as me, and you, and many others.

    IMHO, Neal has been playing tricky games for many years. Aside from the charges against him, he could be on the level in terms of Our Future Fund, but I don’t know how you or I or anyone else, except maybe a few deep in the inside, could find out. If someone reading this knows more, please tell us what you have learned.

    Barbara
64. Zerme Drimed on September 9th, 2010 5:01 pm
    

    >Neal is now “teaching Shambhala Levels” in SI , as though nothing happened.<

    Sounds like he'll need to connect with Prison Dharma if he wants to keep doing this. I wonder, have they ever had any teachers from inside?
65. Barbara Blouin on September 27th, 2010 12:10 pm
    

    Kalapa Court Royal Nursery Fundraiser in Halifax. $1,000 a plate.
    This headline was sent to Nova Scotia listserv sangha. There is a formal invitation, in the traditional style, with fancy script and the Sakyong Ladrang Crest. I will try to post it here, but my guess is that it is too big. Anyway, it is happening. This royal baby has major requirements for furnishings, publicity, etc. etc.

    (As I expected, the formal invitation didn’t make it. Maybe Mark S can add it, if he has time.

    Dear Friends,

    On behalf of the Sakyong Ladrang, it is my pleasure to send you this invitation to a fundraising dinner for the Kalapa Court Royal Nursery. You will be receiving this invitation in the mail shortly.

    We hope you can make it!

    Please RSVP to suter@sakyongladrang.org
66. Zer-me Dri'med on September 27th, 2010 12:56 pm
    

    Note the RSVP address: suter@sakyongladrang.org.

    Honestly, how many people spend even a single thousand dollars furnishing a nursery? What planet is all this happening on?
67. John Tischer on September 27th, 2010 4:39 pm
    

    Now, had it been a boy, and this was for his bris, I could see kicking in 5 bucks.
68. Barbara Blouin on September 27th, 2010 4:45 pm
    

    Could this be a joke?

    The Kalapa Court Royal Nursery Fundraiser in Halifax for $1,000 a plate is starting to seem to absurd to me, on the level of Monty Python, that I just sent an e-mail to Will Perkins, who sent the invitation, asking if it could be a joke. I will let everyone know if/when I receive a reply.
69. Rob Graffis on September 27th, 2010 6:52 pm
    

    “Sakyong Wangmo’s Tibetan attendant. A large amount, $77,000″.

    I doubt even Mrs. Obama’s Secretary gets that much.

    Realistically, if the President and The First Lady were to have another child, I’m pretty sure they would not ask nor receive that kind of money for a nursery. If they had a $1000 a plate dinner to raise money for a nursery, it would cause a National uproar.
    If Prince William was married, and his wife had a baby, and he had such a fund raising event, that would make him look not very good world wide.
    Queen Elizabeth once requested assistance for her heating bills from the Government, which is something usually reserved for those in need in Britain. She was turned down.
70. John on September 27th, 2010 7:23 pm
    

    This stuff is so great to hear about SMR and his conduct.

    Wait, wait just a minute.

    It’s just as whacky as CTR telling us to cut our hair, get out of our hippie clothes , wear suits and dress and “oh my GOD”, get JOBS.

    What a control freak SMR is but not our beloved CTR.

    Wait, wait just a minute.

    How about when CTR told us to all move to Halifax.

    Are we talking about apples vs oranges or SMR vs CTR.

    Their both control freaks in their own ways.

    Both ordered their followers to do whacky things but we CTR followers think he was perfect and without sin. Not like his son SMR.

    Shall we all rewrite CTR’s history.

    Lets discuss his alcohol expenses in the good old days as a starting point .

    I remember back in the good old days in Boulder being told of some of the stranger and very large expenses that CTR ran up .

    Lets all talk about the good old days of CTR and how he spent OUR money then we can have an open discussion about SMR and how he spends THEIR money.

    Lets open up with the same singled point energy against CTR as we do against his son.

    What next, will we allege one day that SMR is cheating on his wife with a sense of moral outrage and forget our beloved CTR track record.

    How can we hold the moral high ground unless we first admit CTR’s failings first.

    Then and only then can we question the conduct of SMR.

    Right speech against SMR but Not CTR.

    Sorry NO!

    When we can show the same sense of moral outrage against “OUR” CTR as we do against “THEIR” SMR then we have a moral leg to stand on, but not until then.
71. Damema on September 27th, 2010 7:39 pm
    

    But, of course, only a solid gold teething ring and silk blankeys will do for this so very special, precious being. Could there be a more urgent and worthy thing to fund to help our planet and all sentient beings?
72. Zer-me Dri'med on September 27th, 2010 7:41 pm
    

    >Shall we all rewrite CTR’s history. <

    We don't need to do that, John. Shambhala has spent the last ten years doing a very good job of re-writing that history, and of missing the point at everty turn.. If you know anything about these things you know there is a difference between Trungpa Rinpche's activity and this $1000-a-plate baby shower. The difference is that Trungpa Rinpoche was always demonstrating the emptiness of forms and the forms of emptiness. The people around the Sakyong think this stuff is *real*. It has all become so ponderous and pious. Where is the joy?

    By the way, what's your last name, John?
73. John on September 27th, 2010 7:55 pm
    

    Hello Zer-me Dri’med

    “Trungpa Rinpoche was always demonstrating the emptiness of forms and the forms of emptiness”.

    Yes, Yes I see and remember back in Boulder in the good old days.

    Was that two or three young female forms with CTR in his bedroom or was that all just emptiness.

    “Where is the joy?” On those nights in Boulder that was the joy as was booze, and smoke. Thats when smoke wasn’t smoke.

    By the way what’s your REAL name ?

    Come on lets talk about Boulder and the Tantric teachings CTR would give us at 3 AM.

    THAT WAS JOY!!!!!!
74. Francis on September 27th, 2010 8:14 pm
    

    I don’t believe for a minute this John was a CTR student – it is probably Ashoka or one of his cronies .
    Knows the repeated history, but nothing else. The difference John was that CTR was a “REAL TEACHER” a mahasiddha, whose teachings will live on for lifetimes, not a made up , dressed up, pumped up son, who without CTR wouldn’t have a mandala, wouldn’t have had any students of his own. But , of course, if you had really been a CTR student , you would know this, wouldn’t you?

    Do you think you can say anything that will take away from his teachings, or compare them to his “pumped up” son who is using the media to inflate himself and his made up Royalty, made up lineage , made up credentials?

    This thing is going to crash down around them.
75. Zer-me Dri'med on September 27th, 2010 8:31 pm
    

    I never lived in Boulder, never met Trungpa Rinpoche, took my first Shambhala Training in 1986, the year before he died. His teachings, and the joy of them, were transmitted to me by his students. So many of them have since been forced out by the re-writing of history and the loss of the vajrayana values for which Trungpa Rinpoche literally gave his life.

    There are no good old days–only the time we have now. Everyone is human. If you think Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche is somehow above all of the activities you enumerate, you need to do more investigation of your Lama, something strongly encouraged in vajrayana.

    I have taken ordination, and Zer-me Dri’med is my real name. My face is on my posts for anyone to see. Where is yours?
76. John on September 27th, 2010 8:35 pm
    

    HELLO FRANCIS

    “CTR WAS A REAL TEACHER AND not made up … like his son”

    Who made SMR a Rinpoche?

    Who made him the head of Shambhala?

    Such hatred , such hatred.

    Is this right speech, right thought?

    This is not what my CTR thought me how about you.

    Was what I wrote a lie Francis or is that an issue you would rather forget???

    CTR was a REAL TEACHER to me but he was also human with human faults.

    Sorry to burst your bubble but I’m not Ashoka or one of his buddies.
77. John on September 27th, 2010 8:44 pm
    

    Hello Zer-me

    Sorry I am no student of SMR and never will be.

    I just don’t like the line of thought that SMR is evil and CTR is perfect.

    The son is the father and the father is the son.

    Both HUMAN

    CTR did not give up his life for the teaching but the bottle and for that I will always regret.
78. Francis on September 27th, 2010 8:45 pm
    

    “Was what I wrote a lie Francis… ”

    CTR never pretended to be other than a human being. That was why he could transmit coemergent wisdom.

    SMR is pretending to be a GOD and a King.
79. John on September 27th, 2010 8:53 pm
    

    Hello Francis

    “SMR is pretending to be a god and King”.

    That’s the CTR I also knew since 1972.

    Enlightened being, God, King, drunk , whore and human being.
80. Edward on September 28th, 2010 12:20 am
    

    John writes:
    drunk

    Does it offend you that CTR drank alcoholic beverages? It seems clear that it does. Can you say why it bothers you? It might benefit others if you would be willing to share this. It’s a difficult subject for many people.

    John writes:
    whore

    Do you feel that CTR sold himself or compromised his integrity for the sake of money? Can you say more about this? I see him completely the opposite way, but I’m curious to hear why you feel the way you do, as I’m sure you must have good reasons for your strong feelings.
81. Petra Mudie on September 28th, 2010 12:33 am
    

    Dear Zer-me Dri’med,

    You ask “Where is the joy?”

    I answer ” The joy is in your heart and mind – your view is entirely of your own making – and it seems to be quite unhappy.

    May all sentient being enjoy happiness and the root of happiness, – and please drive all blames into one…

    All the best,
    petra
82. Edward on September 28th, 2010 11:39 am
    

    Petra writes:
    please drive all blames into one…

    Just for the sake of clarification, are you asking the other woman to blame herself for everything? So that she would stop talking?

    That’s an interesting twist.

    I remember one girlfriend that I was with. I was trying to get her to adhere to certain spiritual teachings, primarily so that she would treat me better, so I could have a more comfortable life. lol. It didn’t really work but for a while I was sure I could achieve more personal comfort that way.

    The whole thing is kind of amusing isn’t it?
83. John Tischer on September 28th, 2010 2:07 pm
    

    VCTR was not an ordinary person. Many people realized this. He was a crazy wisdom teacher…(look it up). SMR is not…got in trouble when he tried to be…had to be reined in. The differences are not superficial. It’s not that there’s something wrong with SMR because he’s not his father. It’s the decisions he makes and the way his organization works…which is plain to see for everyone…that is and has been the source of the criticism here. Valid criticisms, many of them. You really can’t compare the two of them….it’s like comparing apples and eggs. But one can compare what actions each of them did or are doing.
84. damchö on September 28th, 2010 6:01 pm
    

    Hi Petra,

    Like Edward, I was struck by this phrase in your post: “and please drive all blames into one…” I know you meant it with good intention, but I find it problematic in general and wanted to say a few things.

    Phrases like these, I feel, are for us to say to ourselves. Or for a lama–if we are in a lama-student relationship with one–to say to us. There are occasions when we can say them to another, but I would say these are pretty specific.

    When I hear this said as a general injunction to someone, let alone someone not known well to the other person, I cringe. I want to say right back–either on my own behalf or the other person’s: “great, and you too!”

    As Edward rightly pointed out, it’s very easy to find ourselves using such a teaching ultimately for our own benefit. We might think it’s for the benefit of the other person, but if they have been critical in some way of the institution we are a part of, then really I think we need to look closely at our own possible attachment to that institution before saying such a thing. There have been times, and not a few, when I would have wished figures with power in Shambhala might remember this phrase.

    These kinds of things are problematic if used inappropriately because they so easily feed into a power dynamic. And also risk falling into an extreme–that of thinking that it’s all about us. Spiritual communities and spiritual leadership also have responsibilities–very weighty ones. They need to contemplate and work with this phrase every bit as much as anyone else.
85. Petra Mudie on September 28th, 2010 7:05 pm
    

    Dear Damcho,

    Sorry I upset you.
    I am happy to take the blame for quoting Atisha.
    Cheers and all the best,
    Petra
86. John on September 28th, 2010 7:32 pm
    

    To Edward

    “Does it offend you that CTR drank…”

    It only offended me when he became and alcoholic drunk and died from it leaving all of us behind.

    How ENLIGHTENED of CTR what a lesson he gave us all.

    Such a CRAZY WISDOM teaching.

    “Whore” was about him screwing as many attractive woman as he could.

    Many of us followed in CTR’s footsteps and many of us old timers remember the tragic results from booze and sex.

    His “Crazy Wisdom” when he told his Regent (I chose not to use his name here out of disgust) that it was OK for him to have sex with others when CTR KNEW he had AIDS.

    Just use MANTRAS and the little problem you have with AIDS will disappear.

    CRAZY, CRAZY WISDOM.

    I vowed to myself never to tell of what I saw first hand about CTR but somedays, somedays its really hard not to.

    You can LOVE CTR and at the same time HATE him .

    No one is perfect least of all me.

    Be careful when you point your fingers at SMR because others will point them at CTR.

    Our beloved CTR’s early death and the Regent’s death are the real causes of all our problems today with SMR and SI.

    Had he not drunk himself to death he may well still been alive today.
    Teaching all of us his sublime and beautiful wisdom.

    Time for me to CRY again.
87. damchö on September 28th, 2010 8:01 pm
    

    You didn’t upset me Petra. But you did entirely miss my point.
88. Edward on September 28th, 2010 8:53 pm
    

    John,

    My own teacher drank enormous amounts of alcohol at times, but then stopped for longer periods, partly for health reasons.

    He put a teaching by CTR onto a recommended reading list. The one about how if the ordinary drinker imitates the yogi, his alcohol will turn into poison.

    Of course I can understand the temptation if the guru just drinks all the time. Definitely. Don’t misunderstand me. I’ve been there and many of my friends as well.

    And yes, some of my teacher’s students have had a hard time keeping quiet about offensive and unconventional and forceful things that he did. Actually, some of them did NOT keep quiet, and I think they only caused harm by doing that, because they did not understand what they were talking about. They felt superior to the whole thing, did not take enough time to digest it, and then vomited up half-digested opinions and stories as a way to relieve their own discomfort.

    I’ve felt tempted to do that myself.

    But in the end, by seeing how powerful and strong and stubborn the ego is, I’ve come to realize that forceful methods are almost required, if a qualified teacher is willing to use them.

    If you feel a need to discuss this in more detail, you can email me at bp-at-msbx-dot-net. Or maybe it would be better for you to talk to another one of CTR’s students about it so you don’t break any vows or whatever. Yes, that’s a much better idea.

    As far as AIDS goes, I’m old enough to remember that when AIDS first became a popularized label, the letter “S” in AIDS stood for syndrome.

    That’s because it was not referring to a disease but to a body of symptoms. It was not something that could be transmitted from one person to another. Look up the word “syndrome”. It means they don’t know the cause.

    Then along came the pharmaceutical industry, which proposed a theory that AIDS was caused by a virus which they had a lucrative treatment for.

    But I don’t remember hearing that the HIV-AIDS hypothesis was ever proven?

    Uh oh, I think I lost everyone. And I’m venturing into dangerous territory here.

    It’s funny. We’re so intellectual and “highly educated” and sometimes we think about people in past centuries who used to believe that the earth was flat and all that, and we laugh ourselves silly at how stupid and superstitious they were.

    But what if we ourselves were every bit as stuperstitious, maybe even more gullible?

    What if we buy into all kinds of beliefs, just because those beliefs are popular and are communicated to us by the “high priests” of our society, gents in white lab coats, and teachers with tenured professorships? Our real gods and idols.

    If you truly want to explore the AIDS issue more, I highly recommend you google “Peter Duesberg” and then let me know what you think. I don’t know if this Duesberg guy is right or wrong, whether he’s good, or working for the devil. But if AIDS weighs heavily on your mind, take a look at what he says. It’s at least an interesting viewpoint.
89. John on September 29th, 2010 2:16 pm
    

    Hello Edward

    The teaching by CTR “The one about how if the ordinary drinker imitates the yogi, his alcohol will turn into poison”.

    Well CTR was no yogi then. He died a horrible death as a chronic drunk.

    His alcohol WAS his POISON. He was a drunk and we his followers did not have the courage to confront him (thank includes me).

    We just stood their and did nothing and let him turn into a drunk. We let him die because we believed he was a living GOD and not a man.

    He had no MANTRAS to turn his GIN into water but some followers did believe he did.

    I totally disagree with you about students NOT speaking out about their teacher’s misconduct.

    The Dalai Lama teaches “SPY ON ME” let his actions and deeds show what he really is.

    This nonsense about the teacher is on a higher plain and we just don’t get that.

    Pure B.S.

    I’ve seen this B.S. so many times by eastern and western LAMAS and it sickens me.

    One western tulku the late Namgyal Rinpoche had sex with numerous of his male students will still under monastic vows.

    Some of his blindly devoted followers claimed it was a teaching and that he did nothing wrong.

    The very same people who would then point fingers at Catholic priests who did the same thing.

    I know Tibetan woman who tell me that they don’t believe any of this B.S. about their very own tulkus who have sex with their female or male followers.

    We westerners as sometimes too silly in our conduct with their Lamas.

    Conduct that we would never accept about a priest some blindly accept about our lamas .

    Also Edward thank you for your understanding about my pain.
90. Edward on September 29th, 2010 2:58 pm
    

    My teacher had an interesting relationship with alcohol (and tobacco). There were times when he would have discussions about practice, question and answer sessions if you will, in which alcohol was consumed. And participation was not optional. There was also dancing and all sorts of stuff.

    Some people resisted the drinking, because alcohol makes it harder for us to keep our feelings and opinions hidden. Harder to give the appearance of a polished exterior. All the crap gets cut through.

    This might go on for months. Then suddenly my teacher would stop drinking, on a dime, and everyone else had to stop as well. Which often lasted for years.

    That was very difficult for some people.

    Some people enjoyed the drinking, and sort of indulged in it the wrong way. Other people resisted it. It was an opportunity to learn a lot about oneself one way or another.

    Truly, some of us found that if we only drank with the proper attitude, and under the proper circumstances, then it was never addicting. At all.

    Anyway, for the last many years of his life, my teacher did not drink at all.

    As far as CTR goes, perhaps he had other health problems which would have shortened his life in any case? Some people die young, some people even die in infancy. Astrologers believe that not all of this is completely under our control.

    Based on the stories I’ve heard about CTR, he seemed to feel compelled to drink all the time, yes. But in other ways he does not seem anything like an addict to me, at all. And I’ve known some addicts in my time.

    Actually my teacher said we are all addicts of egoity.

    There are a whole bunch of psychological patterns and behavioral patterns that go with addiction. Including shame, hiding one’s behavior, feelings of invulnerability and distraction that come from the addiction, aggressive defensiveness of the addiction, and so on.

    Did CTR hide his drinking? Feel ashamed of it? Aggressively defend it? Become invulnerable or emotionally unavailable?

    In a way, I love the fact that people such as my teacher (or perhaps CTR) were willing to drink alcohol. I come from a long line of Irish alcholics, and it is healing to see someone drink alcohol in a mindful way, rather than using it as an escape.

    I never met CTR personally, but having seen my teacher drink, I can tell you that it was nothing like the way people commonly use alcohol in the world. Although some of us didn’t get that.
91. Phyllis Murray on September 29th, 2010 3:48 pm
    

    How did we get from the original thread about Shambhala finances to the relative merits (or demerits, depending on the point of view) of SMR and CTR?
    I would like to know if the $1000.00 a plate dinner is for real.
    Perhaps those interested in discussing teacher behavior could request a cafe table?
92. Barbara Blouin on September 29th, 2010 4:42 pm
    

    Phyllis, Thanks for mentioning that the original thread got waylaid by all kinds of irrelevant comments. Methinks there is a pattern here of part of the majority of commenters on RFS.

    Your question about whether the dinner is for real? Yes, it is for “real”. Incredible but true.
93. Zer-me Dri'med on September 29th, 2010 4:45 pm
    

    I second Phyllis’s suggestion about a cafe table for discussing specifically Trungpa Rinpoche’s alcohol consumption and other behavior. It is obviously an issue with strong emotional charge for a lot of people, and maybe a full exchange of views would help promote some understanding. Meanwhile, this thread could stay focussed on Shambhala finances, which are a concern for many of us here.
94. Edward on September 29th, 2010 5:49 pm
    

    waylaid by all kinds of irrelevant comments
    For a long time I tried to stick to comments about the original articles, but finally I gave up. Please forgive me.

    I hereby request (if anyone is listening?) a new cafe table about the greatest 2-3 controversies that Shambhala faced prior to SMR… namely regents, aids & drinks. or something like that. “teacher behavior”? “historical controversies”?

    i do wonder sometimes if some of today’s problems with SI stem from unresolved karmas left over from the 80s.

    … perhaps the same people who refused to question the regent back then are now doing the exact same thing with a younger head honcho, who they hope will be different.
95. John on September 29th, 2010 6:15 pm
    

    Hello Edward

    Your comment, “perhaps the same people who refused to question the regent back then are now doing the exact same thing with a younger head honcho, who they hope will be different”.

    As long as you believe that SMR is a GOD you will never question him.

    If you try to discuss your concerns with other followers they will politely or not so politely tell you to SHUT UP!!!

    It was the same with CTR and it is the same with SMR and SI.
96. rita ashworth on September 29th, 2010 6:27 pm
    

    Dear All

    If its for real ummmmmmm – if I was Halifax now and had that dough I would be giving it to many good causes and charities in the province.

    Edward re a cafe table for controversies with teachers I wish you luck with that one-I tried very hard to investigate the Regent crisis way back in the early nineties. I concluded that there was not just one answer to the whole thing but several one of which was people not stepping up to counteract the misuse of power but keeping mum.

    Keeping mum is also very prevalent in Nova Scotia aswell -so its like mirrors and mirrors of mumness and thats very difficult to unravel. Must be some way devised tho and soon for the good of us all and thats why I am interested in governance.
    Best Rita Ashworth
97. Rob Graffis on September 29th, 2010 6:30 pm
    

    “John”.
    I could say I’m Joe Smith, express my pain and anguish, do some name calling and accusations, then hide behind a facade. That is not going to help anybody, nor get anyone anywhere. I also noticed (I’m sure many of us have) that fundamentally five people dminate RFK repeating the same thing over and over and over like a broken record.
    Maybe there should be a Radio Free Neurosis website where the Sakyong / Tulku / Monarchy / Fundraising thing can be over looked.
    I think we know by now Shambhala International will do what is on their mandate by now.
    It’s somewhat a waste of one’s tinme to make a religion of hating Shambhala International.
    As I said, it won’t get you anywhere. I will be critical still of some of it’s activities (and perhaps make humor out of it) , but I fell in that trap too, and it really got me no where.
    Rob Graffis
98. Francis on September 29th, 2010 6:52 pm
    

    I think its time to bring the two streams of “kleptocracy” together, i.e. Shambhala International, and Tibetan Lamaism in general- The former wouldn’t have happened without the latter. Now that would be a really helpful discussion, instead of getting waylaid with all these digressions. Be brave enough to go to the root cause. It’s what CTR was always warning us about, the corruption of Tibetan lamaism.. They have colonized most of us, when we were most vulnerable, i.e. after CTR and the Regent’s deaths, using the Mahayana teachings to keep us compliant and quiet, “enthralling” us with their magic shows of abishekas, empowerments, credit card “prayers”, etc. primarily to get our money.

    Until we get the “BIGGER PICTURE” here we will be simply going back and forth from one frying pan into another fire .This is the root problem, Tibetan lama kleptrocracy, of which SI is just one really gross example .
99. John on September 29th, 2010 7:16 pm
    

    Thank you Francis thank you.

    You are a true warrior.